Starting a JBP from seeds.

Bonsai_Beginner

Hello,


First post, and the forum seems full of helpful people. Well I'm probably as new as they come to Bonsai. I've for the longest time been a lover of this little tree, and how great they look... but have never owned one. Tonight while I was out, I bought a Bonsai garden from a local retail store. It came with a ceramic planter ("5X"10) with drip tray, Japanese Black Pine seeds, growing medium, Bonsai shears and growing instructions (these weren't very thourough so here I am!).

I guess were I'd like to start is the seeds that came with the garden. There has to be at least 30 of them in a white paper pouch. How many of these would I want to use in the planter? The instructions say to cover the "seed" (I have about 30 of them!) with a light sprinkling of soil, moisten the soil and cover the top of the pot with plastic wrap. They also recommend to spread a layer of gravel in the base of the planter for drainage prior to planting. So what I have done so far is used about a "1/4 layer of aquarium gravel (2mm-3mm in size) to cover the bottom to help drain excess water.

Any help would be great, thanks.

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jloeschner

Hello, and welcome to the forum. I am relatively new to bonsai, as well, and fully understand the enthusiasm for growing things. I have many seeds that are just beginning to sprout, including various pines, maples, and others. I planted them just to see if I could get them to sprout and then, most importantly, survive. Now, having said that, let me tell you something that you may not want or like to hear. The "kit" you bought will not produce a bonsai for MANY years to come, providing that any of the seeds even sprout, and then survive.

If you are wanting to truly delve into this great practice, I recommend that you buy a good bonsai book, read the past posts on this and other bonsai forums, and if it is a possibility, join a bonsai club or at least visit a bonsai nursery and ask questions. Even if you can't join a club or visit a nursery, you should at least get a good book. My first book was Harry Tomlinson's Complete Book of Bonsai. I highly recommend it, since it has some good information about a wide variety of species that even a beginner can understand and follow.

After you have gained a little more knowledge, you will understand that you will need to start with a tree that has already been grown out for several years. Even a common Lowe's juniper is more suitable than starting from seed. Of course, as you gain experience, you will want to get better and better stock to begin with, but at first, any old tree will spark excitement in you.

Meanwhile, as you practice, hone and learn new bonsai skills, you can continue to grow and nurture your seedlings. Who knows, by the time they are large enough to work on, you may have learned enough to create masterpieces from them...

Anyway, as for how to properly germinate them, I would hesitate to cover them with plastic, unless you are in a colder climate. When they first begin to sprout, they are very susceptable to "damping off" and must be cared for meticulously. Since they are pines, they will need plenty of sunlight, and must NOT be kept inside. Pines also like to get dry between waterings, so be careful not to overwater them. Of course, you must also make sure that they do not get too dry, as well.

A simpler way to go about this would probably be to plant these seeds in the ground outside. That is where they will have the best chances for survival, if you live in the proper climate, that is. From my experiences with pine seeds, the ones I planted in the ground have grown much better than the ones I planted in a container.

Oh, yeah, one more point that I need to make about my experience...I do NOT have any mature pine bonsai. All of my pines are either planted in my yard or are struggling seedlings in various containers. I have not trained any of these trees as bonsai, and probably will not since they are so scrawny. When I finally decide to train a pine, I will probably just buy a good piece of stock from a bonsai nursery.

Anyway, good luck with your seeds and efforts to grow and train bonsai.

Regards,
John

__________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

QUI ME AMAT, AMAT ET CANEM MEAM

Alasdair

I got some JBP to sprout last year. I just put them in some soil and left them in a propagator outside over the winter. By spring last year i had 15 out of the 50 which had grown and left the rest in to see what happened. Alas, no more grew. But this does mean i have 15 3inch tall JBP's that need to grow a little befor i can use them as bonsia.

Al

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I can feel another "I wish that was my tree" moment coming on...
Currently studying BSc Plant Biology at the Universty of Wales, Aberystwyth

_MaX_

Well, Bonsai_Beginner, I think you bought just the same kit I did.

Here are the pictures...
- The kit (is it the same?)
- The mini-greenhouse I've put them in temporarily
- What the seeds are sowed in...

I've never grown JBP before and I don't know if it's the good manner, well... good luck with it!

Max

Attached Images

	20050319 008 kit adj.jpg (49.1 KB, 30 views)
	20050322 010 mini-gh.jpg (33.1 KB, 22 views)
	20050322 011 JBP.jpg (37.8 KB, 30 views)

__________________
"Eternal companions!
The human being appeared
because the tree was already there;
it will disappear when the tree will no longer be."
-Edgar Cayce

Aaron_K

Hi Bonsai Beginner,

Welcome to the forum and to the subject of bonsai. My advice to anyone starting out, is to read, read, read!! Purchase a few books on the subject. Such authors as Peter Chan, Harry Tomlison are just two that spring to mind. Books such as these will cover in a good amount of depth, the basics of bonsai as well as some of the more advanced techniques and terminology.

As far as growing bonsai from seed, there is nothing wrong with it. I grow tree seeds myself with the aim of one day training them into bonsai. However, for someone wishing to start bonsai, seeds are not a good way to go about it, mainly because you will plant them, wait months before one germinates, and then wait years till it is old enough to actually train into a bonsai. By that time, I think you would be more than disillusioned with the whole thing.

Grow the seeds by all means, as it is enjoyable to watch something grow and develop that you planted. I would recommend purchasing trees too though, either as "finished" bonsai (which you can practise keeping alive, maintaining and repotting), or as raw material stock, to train and grow.

I have trees that are "finished" (I use that term loosely as a tree is never finished - well not until you kill it), I have seedlings and saplings too. Personally, I think its nice having the trees at different stages, as there is usually something to do at any given season.

So just to recap, purchase some books and if you can find one in your area, pay a visit to a bonsai club and have a talk with some members. Once you are done reading and getting information, purchase an inexpensive but nice tree and begin your path along the bonsai road.

Best of luck

Kindest regards,

Aaron

Bonsai_Beginner

Thanks for the warm welcome everyone. And yes _MaX_ that's the same one... I thougt this was going to be easy, the not having to wait years for the seeds to sprout. But hey, I learned from my other hobby (like fresh water planted aquariums) that good things don't happen over night. I love working with aquarium plants!

My climate outdoors right now wouldn't be ideal for growing Bonsai, or leaving seeds to germinate. I live in Southern Ontario, Canada. So could I go ahead a plant some of my seeds anyhow?

I'll do some reading on the internet first though, and maybe get out this week to buy some good books. Thanks for the input everyone.

Bonsai_Beginner

Bonsai_Beginner

Or! if I'm going to go out and buy a nice little aged Bonsai, what would be a good tree for a beginner like myself to obtain? Any unhealthy signs to look for?

Thanks all!

Bonsai_Beginner

jloeschner

Considering your location, and your enthusiasm, I would suggest a tropical tree that you can keep indoors. My personal favorite tropical is Ficus Retusa. They are extremely easy to care for, and even propagate fairly easily from cuttings. Other possibilities include Fukien tea, pomegranite, schefflera, and a host of others. Of course, I still recommend buying a good book first, so that you can learn about the different species and decide which is best for you.

As for planting your seeds now, I cannot comment since my climate is considerably different than yours. I do know that the pines that grow in my area will sprout quite readily in autumn and spring if they are fresh. Of course, your temps are considerably lower than mine, so I am not sure how they would react to your environment.

Regards,
John

__________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

QUI ME AMAT, AMAT ET CANEM MEAM

_MaX_

Got my first lil guy two days ago! Just wanted to let you know.. I'm happy... cauz I thought it would take much more time!!



I sown all the others... so I might get up to 37 JBP before the summer... heh.. What am I gonna do with all this?!... I guess I'll watch them grow for the first 3-5 years....

Max

PS.: what's the latin name for the Japanese Black Pine?!?!

Attached Images

20050330 005 adj.JPG (63.8 KB, 21 views)

__________________
"Eternal companions!
The human being appeared
because the tree was already there;
it will disappear when the tree will no longer be."
-Edgar Cayce