Pre-Bonsai help? (slight rant)

subnet_rx

I've been kind of amazed at the number of beginner bonsai books that I've read that pretty much all say the same thing. By the time the bonsai goes into a bonsai pot, it's 90% done. Then they go on to show you how to take a 2-3 year old tree and put it into a bonsai pot. How many of them show you how to take care of and train a pre-bonsai in a training pot or in the ground? None. If that is 90% of the work, why don't more books tell me how it's done? Why can't I find more information on what to look for at a nursery or in nature? I've basically got a lot of information on the internet and in books on the last 10% of a bonsai's training.

What's the preferred or best way of creating a bonsai? Taking a 2 year old tree, putting it into a bonsai pot, and letting it grow? Or taking a 5-8 year old tree, doing a trunk chop, and training a new leader to get the required trunk taper?

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Joanie

Often, beginners aren't interested in the process that a more experienced person uses. Beginners want to see a bonsai, not a shrub in a growing pot for three years. So the books give advice to the person most likely to buy it... beginners.

There is no best way, but certainly many people on this site would recommend that you purchase a tree old enough to have some character in the trunk (5 - 10 years would be better than just a few years old) Prune it back and put it into the ground. You will see the best growth in the second and third years that it is in the ground... once the roots really get established. Keep it fed, trim it when it gets out of hand, and let that trunk grow. My favorite books for this method are Peter Adams books. He shows how to grow and trim.

The pot is last... in fact, we choose the pot based on the final look of the tree. Most of us are too impatient for that, but the point is that the pot hinders growth. Restricting the root growth, and causing larger swings in temperature and moisture, a bonsai pot is actually our worst enemy sometimes. Trees that would be vigorous in the ground, a nursery can, or a growing box suddenly are on the edge of survival in a pot.

Beginners need to go through the stage where everything has to be in a pot... then, as they learn more about bonsai, they learn to relax and work with the pre-bonsai in a more reasonable manner. Eventually they realize that they have more trees out of bonsai pots, and they finally understand that putting the bonsai in a pot is like framing a painting.... you don't do that until the painting is finished.

Joanie

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bonsaikc

The answer is there is no "preferred" way of creating bonsai. I prefer to purchase prebonsai nursery material, or use collected material. Some want to grow from seed. Others want to propagate with cuttings and air layering, others are adamant that the greatest masterpieces can come from common nursery stock.

Still others prefer to go to workshops where they pay for a tree and the instruction, and others prefer to collect good mature trees and pay others to maintain them.

There are many paths, my son, that lead to bonsai nirvana. They are all the same path.

So the question is, what do you want to do?

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Chris Johnston
Sashi-no-eda.blogspot.com

Kansas City Area Workshops 2008

subnet_rx

Personally, I like nursery stock. I don't have any land from which I can gather trees. I also would like to try air layering. The fact is though, that I can find few articles on pre-bonsai (before going in the pot). I am not really interested in buying a tree that's already there, not much fun in that.

Jay

Please do not mistake the fact that a tree is in a Bonsai pot with that tree 'being' a Bonsai. A tree must be trained... the whole tree, both above and below the ground. So, at some point the tree starts its journey into its display pot. It needs to have its roots reduced over a period of time, going from one pot to another, and it is never 'finished'. The only finished bonsai is a dead bonsai.

Obtaining a tree that is part of the way 'there', by obtaining it in a Bonsai Pot, by no means prevents you from doing major work to the tree, it more than likely will be required... it is very expensive to obtain a tree that has been cared for and trained for 10, 20, 50 or more years.... and that has its final shape and ramification in place.


my 2 cents
Jay

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Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

bwaynef

Apparently I'm just posting links today. Take a look here for some good advice on how to get TO the pre-bonsai stage where you can start working on the last 10%.

http://evergreengardenworks.com/trunks.htm
http://evergreengardenworks.com/pines2.htm (particularly where he talks of "forcing")
http://evergreengardenworks.com/crabappl.htm (training young material)
http://evergreengardenworks.com/growfast.htm
http://evergreengardenworks.com/growprin.htm

Brent is one authority on growing pre-bonsai. He's also one of the most prolific writers of the pre-bonsai growers so his article catalog is fairly extensive and authoritative.

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subnet_rx

Yeah, I've read a couple of those, thanks for the other links. The Evergreen site is one of the only ones I've found that talks about this in detail. I've found one book that spends a page talking about developing leaders in a trunk chop, but nothing extensive. I'd love to see some pictures of pre-bonsai saying something along the lines of "This will work because..." or "This won't work because...". One book I just got called The Bonsai Workshop kind of does this, but again, just takes a 2 year old nursery tree with a 1 inch trunk and puts it into a bonsai pot.

Nicsai

When does a pre-bonsai become a real bonsai?
Surely this is subjective. When you cut the roots and prune a small tree then pot it in a bonsai pot, have you ended up with a bonsai?

PatArizona

G'day Subnet...

Sounds like you are a prime candidate to hook up with some local talent...and to join a bonsai club.

"..local talent...and to join a bonsai club..." Most likely the best source of information on bonsai care for your specific geographiical area.

Please do continue to post to bonsaiTALK...but use the locals.

Pat

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BONSAI isn't about surviving in a storm, rather, how to dance in the rain.
THE ONLY WAY: Always remember, and don't ever forget, that whatever you read here is not cast in concrete... the intent of any advice is to help. In no way should you feel that I’m saying that my way is the only way…heaven forbid! I've seen far too much of the "my way or the highway" attitude in bonsai as well as in other areas of life.