oak and/or maple? also, a question on Holly

mickey85

Alright, there are 2 questions here wrapped into one thread. I've searched and didn't find much info on the specific questions, so I thought I'd ask right out.

Firstly, I'd like to say that I've kept tropical bonsai for a few years, but have lately sold my trees because I ran out of time and funds. I still have a ficus or two rambling about in my dorm room, so I DO know my way around the general ideas of bonsai.

Anyway, as I still legally live with my parents, I'd like to begin growing temperate trees as well. We own 18 acres (10 acres of hardwood, 8 acres of an old christmas tree farm). In the christmas tree farm section, on the outskirts, it's starting to be overgrown with hardwood - namely oak and maples. While walking around last night, I noticed a few really nice looking (and sized) maple and oaks (probably 12-16" tall, 2" diameter trunks). Firstly, the maples are Acer Saccharinum (silver maples), I think. The Oaks are Quercus Rubra (red oak) and Quercus Alba (white oak). At the moment, the leaves are pretty big...well, not right now because they're dormant, but can these leaves be reduced? And if so, are these trees decent as bonsai?

OK, next question:
My grandmother has been keeping Holly trees (Ilex Opaca) for just about the past 50 years, and it all started from one tree on her childhood farm in Kentucky. She's moved many times and has taken cuttings from this tree with her every time. Now she has to go into the nursing home due to Alzheimer's and schizophrenia, and her house is being sold next summer. I'd like to continue this tradition, only Bonsai style. Is this feasible? I've been told that these trees make good subjects, but what is the best way to collect a cutting (air layering?), and assuming I can do that without killing anything, do they, in fact, make good subjects?


Thanks in advance for your help.

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soonami

Those maple and oaks, are not usual bonsai subjects. Usually oak have very long tap roots and aren't happy to be trans planted. The silver maple has leaves that are really too big and will probably not reduce well enough for even a 4 foot tall tree.

mickey85

drat! Just looking at the trunks, they have beautiful potential. ah well...

Joanie

Here is a thread that just discussed collecting red oaks. If the trees are available, and your family owns the land, why not take a couple of seasons to work on a root ball and collect them when they are ready? Go for a bigger bonsai, and the leaves will be more in proportion.

As for the holly, if you Grandmother has taken cuttings in the past, then it is possible. An air layer would be safer, however. Do a couple of air layers, and multiple cuttings, to be sure that you get some to "take". Do the air layering in the spring, and maybe by summer it will be good.

Neither oaks, maples, nor holly will live in your dorm, however. They need to be outside. Can you find a way for them to live outside? Even if you plant some in the ground at your folks house, to grow out and be safe until you finish school? We often look five years into the future for trees, it takes that long to get them ready for final training. At least you would have the holly available, and keep up the lovely tradition. Best wishes for your Grandmother.

Joanie

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mickey85

Yes, I'm well aware that they are hardy trees, and have more than enough land to overwinter them. Since the pine tree section is pretty overgrown and nasty looking, I can dig holes in there to overwinter them and just stake the trees to make sure they don't get mowed down. As our area of Indiana is pretty much a giant sand dune, I thought that if I took the trees, dug a hole, coated the inside with peat moss, then drop the pot down in a bed of good soil that it should be good on overwintering. Seasons here aren't too extreme, and I figure that it might as well be a good idea to start with what is local so I'm not working with anything too touchy.

rockm

Good idea, but skip the "peat moss coating" inside the hole. If you plant anything in something like that you will proably rot the roots. PEat moss is a poor soil amendment, as it stays too soggy and when it dries out, is impossible to rewet. Avoid it.

As for oaks not approeciating having their tap roots cut, that's largely a myth. Depends on the oak and the situation it's growing in. Eastern forest oaks tend to have a central tap, but it's primarily for support. They can be finicky about having it cut, but if done over a couple of years, say cut halfway through one year, then complete the job the next--you should be able to get a larger one out alive. If you collect one, you will have to go with larger sizes and trunk chop them, as leaves don't reduce well in white oak species for the most part.

By the way, bonsai clubs will kill people to get access to old Christmas tree farms. They are usually the source of excellent and outstanding bonsai stock, as the trees have been sheared back for years and even if let go for a decades or so, still retain alot of dense branching and good taper. If I were you, I might start looking at some of those leftover Xmas trees for the future once you have learned how to collect...