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Old 12-Jan-2007   #1
BrianP03103
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Huh? Newbie Advice Sought

Hi,

I'm completely new to bonsaiTALK, and lightly experienced in raising bonsai. Prior to my current situation, I successfully raised a juniper in the slanting style. I thoroughly enjoyed it for a number of years until something (probably overwatering) killed it.

I have just purchased a C Elm over the Internet. I wanted to raise a root-over-rock tree in the broom style. I was told that the tree is about 5 years old, and it appears to be so. It is about 10cm high.

I have read many threads (especially newbie threads) prior to posting this new thread. I have seen a great divergence of opinion on some of the questions I raise, without definitive answers. I want to do the best I can with this bonsai, and am in no rush to accomplish my goals.

1- (Semi-Religious Question ) For my C Elm, what is the best soil for training?

2- I am reluctant to repot soon after getting it, but understand that I should put the bonsai in a larger (what size?) training pot, especially since a major desire is to thicken the trunk and roots. Should I repot about a month after I get the bonsai, or wait until sometime later?

3- Should I do anything to the branches to start implementing the broom style, or just let them grow while the trunk thickens?

4- What should I do to train the trunk to grow straight, so that a proper broom style bonsai can develop?

5- What method of watering is best for the C Elm? I understand that I should do it such that the potting material gets totally wet withing 90 seconds or so, and drains excess water within a couple of minutes. Any further advice?

6-
What should I do about fertilizing during our first year together?

Thank you so much for your input...

Brian
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Old 13-Jan-2007   #2
gregb
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Gosh, I spent quite a lot of time crafting some advice for you and this forum wiped it out, made me log in the whole works. So all was lost. Sorry for that. I just don't have the energy to do it over again tonight. Hope someone will jump in to help you soon.
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Old 13-Jan-2007   #3
Bonsai Barry
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You asked some great questions. It sounds as if you've done some research. By using the search engine at this sight you can probably find even more info. Too bad Greg's response got wiped out, he gives great advice.

You will get a better response to your questions if you provide info regarding where you live (You can provide that information by going to "USER CP" in the green menu at the top of the BonsaiTalk screen.

You should find lots of info regarding soils, but generally you want fast draining soil that won't drowned the roots.

The question about the size of the container is a bit controversial. Some say use the biggest container feasible, but most respected bonsai artist say this can be harmful and use a container between 30-50 larger than the rootball. The ground is the best.

I've never used a branch striaghtener but it is a piece of equipment used to straighten a branch or not-too-thick trunk.

When to prune or replant depends on where you live. But in CA, I prune in the winter and replant in early spring.

Hopefully, Greg will resond once again or another person with more experience than I have.

Happy growing.
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Old 13-Jan-2007   #4
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Big Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsai Barry
You will get a better response to your questions if you provide info regarding where you live (You can provide that information by going to "USER CP" in the green menu at the top of the BonsaiTalk screen.
I did that. I even looked up the info required.

Location: Manchester, NH
Country: USA
USDA Zone: 5A
AHS Heat Zone: 4

I hope that this helps.

Thank you for all the rest of your advice.

I am still listening, patiently, like a good padiwan learner.

Regards,
Brian
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Old 14-Jan-2007   #5
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Back for "round two" I was going to suggest you plant your tree in one of those inexpensive plastic collanders the guys are using for their black pines. I've used them with success for all sorts of species. They cost a whole dollar at the dollar store, if you have a dollar store to go to. Sometimes you can find them in grocery stores, too. I would pot it in 100% pumice (sifted) 1/4" particle size. Fill the bottom of the collander with 1" of pumice and mound it to 2" towards the middle. Carefully remove the soil from the roots of your tree, no root pruning necessary because we are trying to beef up the trunk. Sprinkle a small handful of slow release fertilizer on the drainage layer, spread the roots out radially and center the trunk over where you've mounded the pumice. Gently push the center of the trunk down and twist it a bit to work the pumice under the trunk base. Carefully spread the roots out in a radial pattern and fill the collander until the roots are totally covered. Water from over head with a fine rose attachment to you garden hose and water until the drainage runs clear. It's important to flush the fine dust that remains even after sifting thoroughly as it can cause problems for the roost if left there for long. Once potted this way, you will water the tree daily from overhead with the rose attachment until you see water charging from the drainholes of your pot. You should try to use the cottoonseed meal cakes to fertilize with as they slowly release fertilizer every time you water the tree. Use these throughout the growing season. If you can't source the cakes, you can use a liquid fertilizer every other week during the growing season.

Let the tree grow wild and pinch the leggy shoots. Check in with a photo of your progress and we can talk about the next step for your tree...
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Old 14-Jan-2007   #6
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Big Smile Thank You!

THANK YOU, Greg!

That is exactly the type of (specific) help I was hoping to get! So no soil, no organics, just pumice, eh? OK. 1/4 inch round (no jaggies), sifted and rinsed. Gotcha.

I presume that I can source the pumice locally, though I am not sure where. Is there only one type of pumice (ignorance showing ) or do I need one specific type?

Can a rose head watering device be found for other than a garden hose? I live in an apartment, and need to grow indoors. If necessary, I can pour on with my small watering can and mist with a separate spray bottle.

Regards,
Brian
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Old 14-Jan-2007   #7
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Can a rose head watering device be found for other than a garden hose? I live in an apartment, and need to grow indoors. If necessary, I can pour on with my small watering can and mist with a separate spray bottle.




If you will Google bonsai watering cans you can see they come in all shapes and sizes, some smallish plastic ones can be found at Dallas Bonsais website. I also do the Apt. thing and use a 2 gallon Ortho pump sprayer found at box stores, the nozzle twist to a fine mist up to a hard stream. Some of the basic 2 dollar rose head watering cans from basic garden centers can work better than the bonsai made ones but the craftsmanship is so terrible they begin to split in just a couple of seasons.
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Old 15-Jan-2007   #8
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Lightbulb Roots Over Rock?

The tree is currently growing root over rock. I wish to encourage this.

I expect that I will have to get a bigger pot to accomodate the rock.

However, do I have to do anything else to achieve my goal? I've heard that I should completely bury the rock (and currently exposed) roots to encourage root development. Is this so?

Is there anything else I can do to further my goal of a nice root on rock tree with a large, but nicely tapered trunk?

Thanks for your valuable input...

Brian
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Old 15-Jan-2007   #9
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Brian--use agricultural pumice, it's very rough and irregular looking, not round or smooth. Look for it at larger well stocked nurseries. Make sure you get pumice and not perlite. Is perlite what you're thinking about? It is genuine crappola in my opinion and has no place in a bonsai pot

With respect to your root over rock situation, you have bought the tree already part of the way there. The information you are getting is for just starting one from scratch. Leave it be and pot the tree where the soil line is currently. Each year you re-pot this tree, you can expose a little more of the rock by potting the tree a little higher in the pot. Take it easy on yourself just now; I think you are getting ahead of yourself and being confused by what you're reading. The important thing for you to do just now is get this thing crankin' and fatten that trunk up.

Take red pine's advice about the watering cans. They are the best way to go if you can't use a hose. I just assumed you were going to grow this thing outdoors. You will have to put it outside if you want to do what you have indicated and that is to beef it up. That process is severely curtailed by keeping the tree indoors.
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Old 15-Jan-2007   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bonsai Barry
I've never used a branch striaghtener but it is a piece of equipment used to straighten a branch or not-too-thick trunk.

That... is funny. I have seen branch benders but never a branch straightener. My problem is I can't seem to get those trunks and branches not to grow strait.

On a side note I often send new guys in my shop to the equipment room to get my board stretcher. Some come back right away empty handed and some look for a good long time before telling me they can't find one. Is this what you were referring to?

Brian - you need to select a plant with a strait trunk to do a broom style. Should not be hard as most people are looking for movement in the trunks.

If you are growing inside (really - do things 'grow" inside?) I would skip all of the organic foods and stick with a liquid dilution such as miracle grow. I would not want the stick of cottonseed meal or rapeseed cakes in my house.
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