Jin, Shari and deadwood on young trees?

sauce

I'd like to refer to this TOD thread; http://forum.bonsaitalk.com/showthread.php?t=14765 I am just curious as to why deadwood would be so highly recommended for such a young tree? It seems to me a young tree should be full of vigor and growth. Shouldn't the jins and such be done much later when the tree has some age? I have one of these "cookie cutter" shimps that's a bit larger than the one in this thread, but it is too young, IMO to envision the deadwood that was recommended for this tree. Maybe I am off base here. I understand that deadwood represents age but when the tree is obviously as young as this one does the deadwood really do it justice? IMO it doesn't, but I'm just a newb trying to learn so explanations and comments will be appreciated.

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jportock

I think that since what we are really going for is little tree that has the illusion of being a much bigger/ old tree. Dead wood, branches that appear to sag, the illusion of a much taller tree, old looking bark, a large trunk to height ratio, and etc. are all things that are desirable regardless of the tree's actual age. The more that can be done to give the tree the appearance of age, while keeping the tree healthy, the better.

I'm just a beginner myself though so there may be more experienced people here with a different opinion.

Regards,
JP

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sauce

Thanks JP, you are right on and I agree with what you said. It just seems to me that if a tree is, (key word here) 'obviously' young the deadwood approach looks too contrived, forced, fake etc. This is my inexperienced opinion. Most of the time I try to compare a trees appearance to how it might look in nature. Deadwood on a young tree, here again this is MO usually means the tree is sick and dying. This is why I am trying to understand the reasoning of applying jins and shari to what is obviously a young tree. You mention old looking bark which I agree is a very desirable element and I think it is an important one. The TOD juniper I referenced to does not have old looking bark it is IMO obviously young and wouldn't normally have deadwood in nature. Thanks again for your reply but I also hope some of the more experienced members will straighten me out or enlighten me since I don't understand.

Joanie

The deadwood may be done early in the age of the bonsai because it will fit the design better later, just like the lowering of branches and movement in the trunk. Perhaps if the artist is incorporating the deadwood early and then assuming another decade of age and refinement, it would make more sense? Plan for the future, because if you get a nice older tree that has no available deadwood, you aren't likely to be able to do anything about it at that point.

Just a thought.

Joanie

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sauce

Thanks Joanie, that makes a lot of sense. Seeing the future tree while looking at it today is one of the aspects of bonsai that I am struggling with. Your explanation in this example turned on the proverbial light bulb.

Joanie

Sauce, that may not be the actual answer, but that would be a good reason for doing it. Setting the elements into place, as it were....

Just like with branches on deciduous trees. In Bonsai Today they often wire only the first couple of inches of a branch, then let it go, then next season trim it way back so that they get taper. The few inches they wired are all they care about. It's hard for us newbies to think that way.... at least it is for me... but in the end you get both taper and movement in the branch because of patience and foresight.

Patience.

Reminds me of a Far Side cartoon.... two vultures sitting side by side on an old dead tree, gazing out at a barren desert landscape. One says to the other "Patience h*ll, I'm gonna go out and kill something!"

Don't you just feel like that sometimes?

Joanie

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