Insecticides

tallone

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GB_Bonsai

No. Periodic application is good as a preventative measure.

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“Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain, and most fools do”
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redhawkbonsai

I agree..

You won't notice spider Mites until its too late.

FOR THE NEWBIES

From an earlier thread:
Spider mites are very tiny bugs (about this size > . <) and will kill your trees before you know that they are there! I've always use a preventive insecticide and fungicide treatment every 4 to 6 weeks during the growing season, here that can be up to 10 months. With indoor growing, insect inspection and prevention is on going year around.

When inspecting for insects on trees, the best way to find the smallest of insects (red spider mites) is put you tree over a piece of white paper and tap on all the branches that you can, this will knock off some of the little critters onto the paper, if you can mash the specks with your finger and if the tiny specks smear then it was a small bug that needs to be eradicated.

Kelthane was taken off the market by the EPA sometime in the late 80’s because Kelthane was said to be a derma-toxic carcinogenic and would just about kill everything.

Orthenex used to have Kelthane in it (70s & 80s) and The EPA took Orthenex it off the market too. Now, Orthenex is back on the market using another mite-icide, IMHO it’s the best you can use!

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...G=Google+Search

http://www.ask.com/web?q=orthenex&s...src=0&o=0&l=dir

I will say that everybody has their own methods of treating for insects.

Having several species (with several of each) I have to treat on a preventive method. I try to spray an insecticide, mite-icide and fungicide (all in one, also can be mixed with fertilizer too) at least every 4 to 6 weeks during the growing season. If an infestation is found, I treat accordingly too. I use a couple of brands of systemic organophosphate insecticides.

I found that Ortho makes a couple of types that are very effective for my problems “Orthenex” & “Systemic Insect Killer”. Both have Insecticide, mite-icide and fungicide in it and they both take care of all my problems, without using Neem oil, Kelthane, or Malathion ~ see 1- 5 below.

Don’t trust any organophosphate they all can be carcinogenic.

Always wear protective gear (PPE) when using them!

Always read and follow the labels!

I have seen that Kelthane is back on the market (hum strange huh, EPA) this is the best to combat spider mites on junipers and serrisa foetida, but not on elms…see below.

For example, coming from a long time user(not abuser, lol), with these chemicals I have experienced...

1) Do not use Neem oil on any type of elms, it will defoliate them and can kill them.

2) Do not use Kelthane on any type of elms, it will defoliate them and can kill them.

3) Do not use Malathion on Buttonwoods it can kill them.

4) Do not use Neem oil on Boxwoods it can kill them.

5) Do not use Disyston on Fukien Tea it can kill them.

Having several quantities of many types of species with different types of insects attacking them, “Ya gotta keep your guard up”. Just to name a few problems when growing bonsai down here in South Texas.

* Spider mites can attack very fast and this happens all growing season.
Has anybody lost a juniper or snow rose from spider mites? Of course you have if you been doing bonsai a while. Red spider mites will kill them almost before you can notice they are there. You’ve heard “if you see the signs (webs) it’s probably too late”.

* Cuban Laurel Thrips can and will attack several different types of Ficus during the growing season.

* “The Boogie worms” (not identified yet, little green warms) that ONLY attack bougainvilleas during the summer.

* White flies, aphids, scale, grubs and snails (not insects, but still a pest) come and go during our growing season.

Be glad you’re not down here doing bonsai…sometimes we say BONZAI to the critters! LOL

Good hunting,
redhawk

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BarbaraM

Thank you Redhawk. I have copied this info into a word doc and put it in my bonsai notebook.

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"What I like about bonsai is that it has a beginning but no end. A bud today becomes a branch tomorrow. It is like searching for the rainbw's end; the farther it is pursued, the farther away it is." John Naka

PatArizona

G’day Tallone…

You’re original question, “…Insecticides…should these only be applied when pests are noticed?...” prompted some interesting responses…

Example…”… No. Periodic application is good as a preventative measure…”.

That followed by a rather lengthy dissertation by Redhawk, on preventative application of insecticides…and fungicides…and mitecides…every 4-6 weeks. At least Nine to eleven times a year?? Apparently, they really dooo do things big in Texas.

Redhawk made a point “…to name a few problems when growing bonsai down here in South Texas…”.

South Texas…hmmmm. Never tried bonsai in South Texas. Southern Arizona, yes…but that isn’t South Texas, is it?

So, preventative application of “cides” is what works for Redhawk…in South Texas.

However…I take a different stand…the following is what works for me…

INDISCRIMINATE USE OF INSECTICIDES

Always remember, and don’t ever forget, that indiscriminate use of insecticides…or any “cide” of any description…is a very, very bad thing. Any time that you use an insecticide, you are likely to nail some beneficial insects
and predator insects in addition any harmful critters you might get.

So, what to do, you ask…

Well, you should conclusively identify the critter you are after…whatever it takes, identify the culprit. Then, and only then, treat your plants, soil, etc., for that specific pest. If necessary, take samples of the pest, damaged plant, infested soil, etc., to a qualified local nurseryman, and or your local Agriculture Extension Agent (or whatever your government agency happens to be) to get help identifying your pest.

Once you have accomplished identification, you should start treatment with the least toxic method (spray with clear water, whatever) recommended for your particular problem. If the “least toxic” doesn’t work, move on to the next “least toxic”, etc. And, always read the label! Not only read it, but follow the directions!

What about preventative treatment…you ask.

“Preventative” treatment is not my bag. For me, there’s no joy in killing insects. The bug executioner does not live here. I have found that when I keep my bonsai area clean, clear of trimmings, etc., and provide good care, I have no need of insecticides. In fact, about 3 months back, I discarded 6 or so, insecticides/fungicides that had not been used in 5-10 years. Also, you must keep your landscaping pest free.

Keep in mind that “cides” should never be used in any way that is not specified on the label. If you are not following label directions…here in the USA anyway…you are breaking the law. Also, there may very well be a health risk if you disregard the label instructions.

Finally, what I have suggested (that’s suggested as in “suggested”) above, is what has worked for me, in Southern Arizona for almost 13 years, and in Northern California before that…and now, back home in Northern California.

I know that I’m being redundant, but it works for me.

So, you've read what works for Redhawk, and you've red what works for this Ol' Sage. The choice is yours.

Whatever floats your boat...

Pat

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THE ONLY WAY: Always remember, and don't ever forget, that whatever you read here is not cast in concrete... the intent of any advice is to help. In no way should you feel that I’m saying that my way is the only way…heaven forbid! I've seen far too much of the "my way or the highway" attitude in bonsai as well as in other areas of life.