Black Pine Seedlings

I have a couple of Black Pine seedling about 2 1/2 years old they are about 6-8 inches high. I wanted to know is this size normal or am I forgetting to do something to make them grow larger they are about pencil thick and in a 6 x 4 inch pot they are my only 2 out of 14 that I had growing that survived or eaten by squirrels. I would really like to see them grow some more this year they do have some new buds growing on them maybe they will have hope this year.

Any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks.

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TreeBay

Hi Karlo

Black pines are vigorous trees. Given enough sunshine and fertilizer they should grow well for you. But if you truly want to maximize growth, you should put these seedlings in the ground. You'll get 1" or more increase in growth each year.

Keep a low branch on the tree to use for a future apex.

Regards,

Matt

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mskovan

Karlo,
* * *Check out my post in the "propagation board" titled "seedlings in containers". There is a link there to an article you might be very interested in. One of the subjects of the study is black pine. I would not presume to contradict Matt, but this study suggests that you can in a pot, with the proper techniques, equal or better the growth rate of seedlings in the ground. For the first few years anyway.

* * *Matt, if you have the time, I'd really like to hear your thoughts about that article. I hope I'm not getting too pushy with that study. In my newbieness I was pretty impressed by it, obviously.
* * *.......Mike

TreeBay

That's a tough document to read! I've never seen a PDF document scanned quite that way before at low resolution plus a 5 degree angle, just to make things interesting.

The article compares container growing with the least favorable ground planting scenario I can imagine:

"a high population of seeds... planted in a small area with some supplemental fertilizer and irrigation" and subjected to "undercutting of the root system after 2-3 years," "cut back to 4-6 inches in height and following transplanting", and then either put in containers or planted too closely together with shading and all kinds of nasty disease things happening.

Why? Because it's cheap and it makes a lot of plants with bad root systems and no vigor, but the fit nicely into those liners and 1 gallon pots you find at the garden center.

I think the gist of the article is that a strong root system developed early on can serve the tree well for many years after it is transplanted from container.

Black pines can do well in containers. Wonderful Japanese Black pine bonsai have been created in Japan over the past few decades exclusively in container culture by beginning with seedling cuttings. These cuttings feature a great root spread and a huge number of low branches that rapidly expand the growing base, particularly during the first 10 years when the plant is in its strongest growing period. It's arguably the best way to produce a black pine bonsai.

You can read more about this technique in issue #71 of Bonsai Today. The section on seedling cuttings is page 36. It was also covered in the same magazine about 6 years earlier. It's wonderful and it works. I've seen the results firsthand.

However...

Getting back to the issue at hand, was these poorly developing black pine seedlings and what can be done. Clearly you can't change history and make seedling cuttings of them, so I would say that the best thing to do would be to put them in the ground, spaced at least 3 feet apart and stand back. The first year they will grow more than they did the prior 2 years of poor growth. The following year about 10x more.

Regards,

Matt

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mskovan

Matt,
* * *Thanks for the quick reply and the added link. I didn't mean to imply that the article offered a better, or even a good solution to Karlo's problem, only a possible alternative. "Put them in the ground" is no doubt the best advice, especially since he is 2 1/2 years too late to apply the full model laid out in the paper. However, for those who can't, or simply don't want to do the "in the ground thing" the study has a lot of useful info.
* * *Karlo, listen to Matt, he knows of what he speaks. I'm just a rebellious grasshoppa.

* * * * * *..........Mike

Thanks to both i have got good info from both and will try that on by 2 year olds and I do have a new growth of pine just starting so maybe I can apply the techniques.

Thanks

jhill

Since you all are the subject, Last year I started a grow bed (the lazy mans way)I placed a thick layer of newspaper ontop of the ground then started putting ground up leaves,grass clippings to start composting. This year I planted 4 black pines that are about 4 years old in this bed. My question is do you think that it may be to rich for these pines?I mixed in alot of sand. I will let all of you know if they survive.Keeping my fingers crossed.

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TreeBay

Black Pine is a pretty strong species. *The main concern is not providing too much water or you can get crown or root rot going. *That's probably the real danger in having a mix that is high in humus. *And the bottom on your growing bed will tend to trap the moisture, so be careful with that.

Regards,

Matt

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