Species and Varieties Forms Layout

BrianP03103

I've been pondering what Ravenna had to say regarding these forms. She kept referring to subforms for the memo fields. I kept saying that they were not subforms. Then, I got to thinking, "Why shouldn't they be?".

What if I replaced the memo fields with a series of buttons that each caused a different subform to pop up with a vertically large, scrollable, memo field? You could pop up as many of the subforms as you would like, and manipulate them independently.

In order to save the data you had entered in a given subform, click a "Save" button on the sub-form. You could either close the subforms individually with their own "Close" button, or eliminate them automatically by clicking the "Close" button on the main form. Of course, if you try to close a subform before saving, you will receive a warning message, giving you the option of saving field changes or abandoning them.

Does this make sense to you all. Goodness, knows, this will be quite a bit more complex for me to program, but it does seem like a more presentable option.

I have made a non-functional prototype of the Species form and an image is posted below for your review.

Brian

Attached Images

Picture1.jpg (60.4 KB, 34 views)

__________________

Advertisement

Ravenna

Hi Brian,

thank you for your new suggestion. I just wanted to clarify something because I wonder whether we misunderstood each other there.

Now there were two main points I tried to make in my last post and which weren't clear to me.

1. If I have an overview form I need to be able to see everything with one look without having to scroll up and down all the time. This means that the size of the form need to be large enough to allow easy reading. I would hate to have to scroll up and down a page all the time just because the form is long and narrow. Reading on the computer is already less easy than in a book as it is one shouldn't make it more tiring.

2. Hence the white areas where you enter text must be large enough to allow easy reading and small enough to fit on one "computer screen" if possible.

3. That would mean that if I have more information I want to enter into the memo field than fits into the current size of that memo field I need to be able to scroll down within that memofield to be able to view that information. So the question regarding this second point is really: did you limit the amount of information I can enter per memo-field or not?

4. Now as far as those two designs are concerned I think they have both advantages and disadvantages assuming that readability and the possibility to write as much as you want are fulfilled for both of them: with the overview you can enter things in such a way that you can place the most relevant information at first and see it at one glance yet have the possibility to scroll down in each memo field to get more info. With the other option you get a better overview over each aspekt and you may have to do less scrolling to see it which is nice too.

5. For me the most important aspects would be that the readibility and extendability are given whichever format you use.

6. As I mentioned before I suspect that those who to the programm testing may be best positionened to advise you there as they can see the forms in the "true" size. If I look at the pictures here and think of the one version I had downloaded it seems to me that so far the window of that software just uses a small fraction of my screen and that I find unsatisfactory for the readability (another thing to consider will be what size the pictures will have with small forms like that: using pictures in that programm only makes sense if I can see pictures of size big enough to get a good view of the branch structure!)

I hope that made it clearer what I was concerned about. Thank you very much for making such an effort to take our wishes into account.

Mcspeed

Brian if I understand you correctly, I would say that a "sub menu" wouldn't be a bad thing, we might use the same "notes" for different trees. This way they would be there to simply click on to add to another tree, understanding that we will need to add, and save them into that "sub menu".

Bill

BrianP03103

No matter how I arrange the info, if you want "to see everything with one look", you absolutely can not avoid "having to scroll up and down all the time". All of that stuff on one form will absolutely force the need for scrolling. No choice.


What is "one computer screen"? How many pixels of square area are available to use? You can't tell me any more than I could tell you. That is because no one can predict the resolution setting on another's monitor. If I use a higher resolution, I can fit more "stuff" on "one computer screen" than otherwise. What you wish for is, unfortunately, just not attainable with any certainty.


That would be true regardless of the overall presentation of the form.


MS-Access sets the limit of 65,536 characters for memo fields. That is a lot of text! For most purposes, that is much more than sufficient.

continued...

__________________

BrianP03103

I really don't think that I understand what you want here. How will the "overview" form allow you to "place the most relevant information at first"? Do you mean by scrolling down the what you think to be the "most relevant information"?

I really don't understand how the "other option" will allow "a better overview over each aspekt". Help me...

I totally understand that and agree. The precise how is the really difficult part.

So, download and take a look. You don't have to take the time beat it up, just take a look and give me your thoughtful evaluation of how things look.

You obviously have some very clear perspectives on what you'd like to "see", which I value and would be foolish to not take very seriously. Please take a look and tell me your impressions.

__________________

BrianP03103

Oy, Bill, I hadn't considered doing that. Please don't ask that of me. That would involve *SO* much programming and memory overhead that I would go nuts! Rather, please reconcile yourself to using Notepad (or an equivalent) for this purpose, OK?

Brian

__________________

Mcspeed

Not a problem, I was just thinking that was what you had eluded too. I am not afraid of a little work for myself, and I know how much it takes to do what you are doing. Besides as much as they are the same, those notes tree by tree would end up revised a little for each, so no worries on my end.

Is the avater a Gia representation?

BrianP03103

I agree. Thanks for understanding...

How insightful of you to recognize the Gaia in her dendrological form. My respect for her is one of the things that drew me to bonsai.

__________________

Ravenna

Hi Brian,

actually I had been thinking of downloading the new version but I must admit I haven't seen the link to it in any of the recent posts and as I am rather busy studying for exams I didn't have the nerve to go through all the posts to search for one: could you just post a link here?

If you set no limits to the memo fields than that is fine: I obviously couldn't decide that from just looking at the picture of the form.

Just regarding your first query on your "reply part two": that wouldn't entail any changes for you. It would be just dependent on how I enter the data: If I place the most important info briefly on top and then add details etc. below then the overview is really helpful because I can see the most important things regarding every aspect at one glance.

That I need to scroll down to get to see more details and "ifs" and "buts" would be less bothersome then. I would prefer that if possible to the solution of having to scroll on the form AND in the memofield. Personally I feel the idea of an overview form gets a bit lost if you use the latter option and I have to scroll down the form AND in the memofields. I would prefer then option I called "the other option" (see below).

Regarding your second query which follows with "the other option" I meant the one you have been suggesting now. If I have a larger memofield because I just have one memo field per form page.

In either case I should have to possibility to use a function to get a report where the ALL the information in ALL the memo fields regarding one species or variety etc. can be printed be printed out as a report.

As regards the resolution: I do understand your point (even though by my persistance you may doubt that) and I realize that though all other programs seem to fit their windows without problems to whatever resolution I have to fit my screen access somehow doesn't seem to allow that. Still I assume that there must be some standard resolutions of what is being used.

Correct me if I am wrong but I assume that with higher resolution you can fit more on one screen? If that is so I have to say that I have a computer which is 5 years old which and "just" a laptop which these days means "ancient" and even on this old machine so the form of the first version was really small. So wouldn't it be possible to find a solution where say at least 95% of the computers have no problems opening those forms without the user having to scroll to see the memo? (And saying that if you take the size of the whole form as your limit you still have a "safety margin" due to the fact that the border of the memo doesn't start right on the border of the form.

If you don't know what resolutions are common may be a poll would help (and instructions how to look what resolution we have... )

I hope that I have been clearer now. Given the muddle in all my photo files I very much look forward to your programm.

Send the link and I will have a look at it albeit briefly...