Fixed Lists OK?

BrianP03103

Got it. It's called Specimen Progress - nothing but textual notes, relating to whatever you wish.

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BrianP03103

There are eight fertilizing periods, each related to a fertilizing method and fertilizer type. Knock yourself out.

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bonsaikc

As I said, I am no software engineer, and I am going to bow to your superior talent, preparation, effort, and expertise!

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Sashi-no-eda.blogspot.com

Forest Reef

Bumblebee - Brian is working on bonsai collection documentation for the community. The original thread got too long, another member suggested breaking questions out into individual threads - and that is what this is, one thread on a particular question. Trying to make input/feedback easier.

Brian - I thought you were going to take a break! I don't have time to respond in detail today (at work). I do plan to answer and go thru your lists one at a time - probably this weekend - from my slowpoke home (Win98, dialup) PC. My "intermediate bonsaiist's opinion", such as it is.

Thanks again!

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Anita

Nature, time, and patience are the three great physicians.

BrianP03103

Addiction is a terrible thing to break loose of...

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Ravenna

Hi Brian,

I wonder whether you really need to create all those fixed lists? As far as I remember from my course you can offer that the user himself enters the classification or specifications he wants to use to describe the different aspects you are trying to classify here already. And once he has entered those possibilities he could choose from them on his specimen entry menu? Personally I would prefer that.

As regards the time periods you offer I would think it might be helpful to have the option to enter time periods either as season or in the form dates so that you can enter 01.08. as an equivalent when you mean beginning of August or 15.08 as mid August etc. and still find it easy to classify things according to season AND date in one go when you want to look up the tasks which are due.

Given my first comment I don't want to enter too much into details but just wanted to point out a few things: I rarely have to water any trees daily let alone twice daily. Even in summer often 2-3 days pass before the top soil dries out as my balcony is very shady. Now there is no option on your watering list I could use. Actually I am not sure how you want to use those "watering requirements" in the end.

There won't be a tree which I will only "mist" or always "flood" (I assume you mean soaking in a water basin with that) and I am not sure what the water table is. Is that a list I will use to make date specific entries or is that the list to describe the general needs of a species? If it is the former then I think it needs to be expanded and one needs to consider in what context it will be used. For the latter I find it unsuitable.

If you use it for the planning of your watering or to record what you did (i.e. in both cases linked to a specific date) you could use it to get the program to mark automatically on the calender when in theory the tree should be watered. If you want to use that entry for specific dates then you don't need to the option "water daily" but just "water" or "water twice daily". As far as the other options you list there: they partially actually don't belong to watering per se and I don't know how you want them to be entered. A tree might need watering and no misting and vice versa but it might also need both on a particular day. So you might have to add those options if it is a "day specific option".

I don't think it makes sense to describe species by how often I have to water them but what kind of soil they prefer. I had a look in several bonsai books and found that most of them don't seem to use a "strict classification" that I would find in any way helpful. In Tomlinsons book there is mostly a note to "water daily" but as I said: I don't feel it applies to most of my trees and as a "requirement option" I don't find that helpful. The additional comments they made seemed more helpful to me than anything else. But they vary a LOT and many of them might be much more helpful in a comments section.

The best classification is the one which I found in the RHS Encyclopaedia of Plants and flowers: they have three groups marked by different signs of water drops either: 1. prefers well-drained soil, 2. prefers moist soil and 3. prefers wet soil.

The other thing you need to consider is that watering requirements may vary according to the season and some may find that helpful and important too though if you use the RHS as your basic information and add the rest in your comments you might find that sufficient.

Now that as a classification I find helpful and if I then have a section where I can add specific comments and another where I can add special needs like needs misting etc that would make sense. I don't know whether you can get hold of an RHS book and have a look at them but that is something I would find easy to go by as a classification system. I don't want to go too much into detail regarding the other points because as I said: I think the best option might be if the use can define how HE (or she ) wants to classify the requirements of his trees. He would just need the possibility to enter or at least add those options or remove them as required.

Curious to see how others feel about that.

BrianP03103

There are two distinct perspectives being used here. The first is data entry, the second is reporting/scheduling. For input (data entry) purposes, I agree totally with you - they are superfluous. However, from the other perspective, they become the basis for selection and sorting.


Yes I can. However, if the list of things is extremely discrete and unchanging (even from user to user), why would I (or the user) want to do that?


They can be selected from a list now, in their current form.


Trying to have it both ways in data entry would be a pain in the butt for me - I'm not interested. Perhaps in reporting a translation from date to season could be done, I don't know yet.


OK, so the list contents are faulty. Tell me what should be in it. I rely upon the subject matter experts to share such data with me. I am still too ignorant of things bonsai to pretend to know what should be in there.


Understood.


Neither am I. It was supplied to me.


Tell me which you want it, folks. I am developing in the dark, still. There is nothing as frustrating as not receiving valid and sufficient user requirements, and then having these same users complain "But that isn't what I want!!"


The current usage for the Watering Requirements in Tree Species is to present general guidance for watering. The purpose of the information in Watering is to track historical watering events.


How do you think that this should be most properly handled?


Would both be wrong?


It is intended to provide guidance for a Specie, not necessarily for any particular Specimen.


Maybe that is how Watering Requirements should be described - not as a function of how often, but on the desired effect on the soil.


I am more than willing to use RHS as my primary reference source. Is access to this information available online? I have great difficulty going shopping, and my discretionary money this month is already spoken for with purchasing and establishing my new Chinese Elm.


Enter or not enter is doable. In fact, the fields are currently not required in the Species table. Adding and subtracting fields is absolutely not something users can do.

Me too.

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BrianP03103

OK, what if the Watering Requirements list were modified to consist of:


FixedListName................FixedListText

WateringRequirements.....Well Drained Soil
WateringRequirements.....Moist Soil
WateringRequirements.....Wet Soil

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Ravenna

Well, as I suggested it obviously find it good... That was what I would use if it is just a question to specify the general needs of a species. If you use the list to describe what you actually did, do or want to do on a tree then it depends on how the data are presented: if there is just a general description then watering daily, watering twice daily, watering every second day etc. makes sense to me. If it is just a question of having the frequency of watering in your list what you actually could do is have a list of number which one can choose Like "water 1 daily" and you get numbers from 0.5 to say 14 (there are species like Portulacia where are succulents but are also grown as bonsai and they need be watere VERY rarely).

The problem I had with the rest of the list was that what it describes is actually not the watering per se but additional things you could do either describe the method of watering or something that is different of watering the soil but not in either case it is not mutually exclusive. So you would run into trouble if you wanted to choose BOTH options. May be the person which suggested "flooding" and "water table" could explain you what they meant by that: is that immersion of the pot in water just for the soil to be soaked with water or were they thinking of plants which really do stand in the water at all times? If it means the latter then it would have to be in the list but I am not aware of a tree which needs this.

Otherwise I would suggest putting those other terms in a second and third list which allows you to choose both the watering regime, whether or not the plant needs misting and a list which describes the type of watering you want to do: which would possibly apply to the terms "water table" and "flooding".

Just noticed in the fertilizer section foliar feed is missing as a method of fertilizing. And I don't know whether you want to add the possibility of including other "supplements" would include Vitamins etc. which are not fertilizers per se and of which there are too many to differentiate the type more than that. The last thing you might want to include ther is: Endo- and Ectomycorrhiza (makes two entries) though that is again something that might be applied at the same time as the fertilizer so depending on the format you want to use you might have to make those supplements etc a second list or give the option to choose two things for the same time period.

For the light requirements I think instead of "maximum light" etc. the terms "full sun", "partial shade in summer", "partial shade" and "full shade" seemed more common but I think also like this people will know what is meant. Haven't noticed any other points right now. Hope it helps a bit.

So, I hope that makes it a bit clearer what I meant.