Winter Storage

jloeschner

Speaking of high winds...we are currently experiencing our first winter storm for this year. Winds at 31 MPH with gusts up to 44 MPH, according to the Weather Channel. It seems like the wind is much harder, though. Temps are currently at 33 F, expected to continue dropping throughout the day and night to reach a low of 9 F. It is currently raining, but that is supposed to change to ice and snow later today. So far my little building is holding up, but these winds are really tough on 4 mil Visqueen! If it will just last through the windy part, it should be ok. Man, it is hard to believe that it was 62 F yesterday! This weather is really difficult on my trees.

Regards,
John

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Adam_MA

If you're worried about light the 10x20 Enclosed Canopy looks like it would be a good option. It's only $60 more than the Hercules one and comes with clear windows on the sides. I think if I were to buy one of these this would probably be the one.

I'll try to take a couple of pics of my winter setup and share with the group.

Thanks
Adam

Dale Cochoy

Johns, or John and other John.....

OK, since you described the covering as "tarp material" I understand. It should last quite some time. I use a smaller version of our leaf raking/dragging tarps ( plastic with a fiber strengthening weave) over my water table every winter and it's lasted a long time.

Other John,
I'd not use clear plastic on your overwintering. On warm days or in spring it gets too hot inside, basically you are "greenhouse effect" endangering them. The milky white plastic is far more preffered/common to poly houses/green houses just because of this problem, and there is plenty of lite. If you look at the pic of my fiberglass greenhouse with UV protection in the plastic it looks fairly dark, but yet inside is quite bright, in fact, I'd be happier if it was a bit more subdued.

I also have a smaller cold frame for overwintering bonsai-potted more touchy hardy mame and shohin. It is made of treated wood lined with styrofoam and has a flip-up plexiglass top that can be propped to any opening. It is bottomless and set about 6" below surface with a layer about 4" of gravel for drainage. Here's a pic. I've NEVER lost a tree in here in the winter in NE Ohio!

Also, I scatter moth balls around in here and in greenhouse to keep mice and moles out. Works great and they last all winter before they disappear.
Dale

Attached Images

COLD FRAME.jpg (58.0 KB, 61 views)

__________________
________________________________
If you want to be Different....
You have to DO something Different!
__________________________________________

Some people NEVER take the time to do a job right the first time....
but, they always seem to make the time to do it over again...
____________________________________________
Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery
Hartville, Ohio

jloeschner

Dale,

Thanks for the advice. My current setup is constructed with the milky visqueen, and it does indeed let in plenty of light. However, it is rather flimsy in the wind. The enclosure that John Dixon has is what I am planning to buy, or at least one like it. I was concerned that the white tarp that it comes with would not let in enough light for springtime use. For the winter time, I am not as concerned about the light, except I do have some conifers and evergreens that will need some modicum of light in addition to freeze protection. I know that they are generally more hardy than my maples and elms, but I still feel more comfortable protecting them. My biggest problem is the fact that my yard tends to flood throughout the winter, and so I cannot really store the trees in the ground. I currently have them placed on plastic "bread" racks that elevate them about 4-6 inches off of the ground in order to keep them from being submerged when a big storm comes through (like today!)

Regards,
John L.

__________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

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Dale Cochoy

John,
I was just finishing a long reply on my similar problems and fix for flooded lot when the screen flashed and it disappeared into nowhere...
So , in short,
I have lowest yard all around 6 yards,
every storm floods my garden and pond, then takes days to drain and a week for pond filter to clear it up again. grrrr!
so when I built greenhouse ( look at pics again) I put down a foot high dirt mound and rented a tamper to lever nice and had.
I put woven, reinforced fabric over it like used at nurserys to walk on. Got it free from a nursery tearing down some polly houses.
Put 3-4" washed river sand over the material, now the gravel won't sink down into the dirt like it does on my dry riverbed and walks and need replaced from time to time.
Works great, still looks like new after 8 yrs.
BTW, my greenhouse does not have a footer/foundation in case I ever want to move it. The sides have flaps that stick out about a foot all around. They were covered with gravel and I made long "hairpins" with bent re-rod to pound through holes in them to hold it all in place.
and, I originally ran 4" perf pipe under the soil and ran it out to connect with perf pipe running through garden to help with water removal, but, it wasn't needed. I never get enough water in the greenhouse from watering to make it usefull.
BTW, The perf pipe through garden, around pond and out front of garden is a PIA, every winter ,where it runs through gravel ,it pushes up through gravel, has to be fixed, looks like sh** and then doesn't work because it has high spots. Hard to fix because it runs under bridge. It is fine where run a few inches below DIRT but just doesn't work good in porous gravel in winter, and if put below gravel I don't think it would help much. Just a hint for those thinking of drainage.
Dale

__________________
________________________________
If you want to be Different....
You have to DO something Different!
__________________________________________

Some people NEVER take the time to do a job right the first time....
but, they always seem to make the time to do it over again...
____________________________________________
Dale Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio
Yakimono no Kokoro Bonsai Pottery
Hartville, Ohio

jloeschner

Dale,
That sounds like what I need to do. I just came in from tarping over my little structurem since the wind has almost destroyed the plastic, and this storm isn't even halfway through yet. I have about 3" of water standing in and around my little greenhouse, under the layer of ice (on the outside) and quite unfrozen on the inside. I plan to order one of the canopies like John Dixon's and build up the ground before I erect it. Your ground setup sounds good to me...if I can get ahold of some of that ground cover. If not, then I guess dirt, sand and gravel, with a footer around the structure, will have to do.

Man, it is COLD out there! Winds still gusting to 38 MPH, with a windchill of 3 F. Actual temp is just 21 F, and this is as cold as I can remember it getting around here in January the last few years! I hope this isn't an indication of the rest of the winter! Maybe I should bring my chinese elm indoors? I hate to bring it into 75 F from 21 F, but it is supposed to drop to the single digits overnight. Any suggestions?

Regards,
John

__________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

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John Dixon

John,

I suggest you buy some 1/2" or 3/4" re-bar of 18"-24" lengths to drive into the ground at each pole. Use standard bricks and run the re-bar through the mortar hole leaving enough, 6" or so, for the pole to slide over. The bricks help to level it, and it will give you a little clearance at the bottom. I forgot to mention that earlier.

John

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John Dixon

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jloeschner

John,

Actually, I have planned to make it semi-permanent. I plan to use concrete piers poured into the ground under each pole and secure the poles to the piers with the concrete anchor kit that is available for the canopies. This way, I will not have to worry about the wind taking the frame. Of course, I plan to level the ground after I build it up and before I dig/pour the piers. Hopefully, after I have completed this little project, I will have a permanent frame to which I can tie various tarps for different seasons, and I do not have to worry about taking it down and storing it.

BTW, do you, or anyone else, think that I should bring my chinese elm inside for these teen and single digit temps? This is my first winter with bonsai, and I am kind of nervous about their survival.

Regards,
John

__________________
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement.

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John Dixon

John,

My elms have to wing it in the cold frame. I won't baby them past that. If you have very small ones and the temps will be in the single digits, you MAY need to bring them in (not the "warm" house mind you, but an unheated garage or the like). It sounds like your winter is a little colder than mine though.

John

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John Dixon

Si vis pacem parabellum

Stay off the trails of others, that's where the booby-traps are.