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Cold damaged roots - how to tell

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Cold damaged roots - how to tell

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18-Mar-2005	#1
Tobias bonsaiTALK Expert Join Date: Feb-2004 Location: Vermont Country: USA USDA Zone: 4 AHS Heat Zone: 3 Posts: 195	Cold damaged roots - how to tell All, I'm curious to know if you can visibly tell if roots have been damaged by cold when you are repotting? Will the roots be black as if they were rotted? Are white, healthy looking roots an indicator that the tree made it through the winter ok? I repotted my Zelkova and Trident Maple today. I fully expect that they will not come back from my completely dumb dumb dumb (dumb) overwintering setup. dumb. anyway, upon repot the root look...well...like roots. not black. not falling to pieces. not stinky. is it inappropriate for me to muster up a bit of hope? (i repotted on the off chance that they pulled through) (the zelkova actually seems to have some swelling buds, but it may just be my imagination) thanks in advance peoples. you rock. toby __________________ ~Self-proclaimed dendrophile!

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18-Mar-2005	#2
TreeBay Tips:5¢ Advice:Free *MODERATOR GROUP* Join Date: Aug-2001 Location: Silicon Valley Country: USA USDA Zone: 9 AHS Heat Zone: 4 Posts: 9,737	You should be able to tell by the color and texture. If the roots had been killed by frost, the finer ones would not hold together. The larger ones would be mushy around a central core that would be more fibrous. Healthy roots would be white in the cross section at least. They might not be white on the outside depending on what kind of tree it was (Oak or persimmon roots might appear black).There also might be an odor, but this can be harder to differentiate. Budding is a good sign. Eventually, dead roots might change color and become mushy and rotten, but it might take several weeks to begin that process. When repotting, it's a good idea to trim back the root system until you get to healthy looking roots, whether you have reason to believe they are rotten or not. Regards, Matt __________________ Want to be a seller on bonsaiAUCTIONS? Get authorized today! bonsaiTALK: Over 100,005.36 Megabytes Served this Month!

24-Mar-2005	#3
Tobias bonsaiTALK Expert Join Date: Feb-2004 Location: Vermont Country: USA USDA Zone: 4 AHS Heat Zone: 3 Posts: 195	thanks a lot mr. matt, after bringing my plants in the house to protect them from any further cold nights, how long should it take for them to start breaking bud, or for buds to start obviously swelling, before you can consider them done for? If a trident maple and zelkova go for a week without clearly displaying signs of life (despite the living cambium that they do still have) in a constant 70 degree F environment, can you pretty much consider them dead? could it take longer than this for them to display signs of life? at this point i'm just thinking about salvaging the expensive soil that i repotted them in. let me know what you think, and thanks. toby __________________ ~Self-proclaimed dendrophile!

25-Mar-2005	#4
jloeschner Archbonsaist in training Join Date: Aug-2004 Location: Marianna Country: United States USDA Zone: 7 AHS Heat Zone: 8 Posts: 479	Tobias, If you are keeping a trident maple and a zelkova in the house, you should be happy that they are staying dormant. These trees will not last very long in an indoors environment after they leaf out. Trust me, I speak from sad experience. If the trees are still green under the skin, then they should be ok. Time, and only time, will tell if your trees have survived. As soon as the threat of freezing is over, you should place these trees back outside. As a side note, I am in zone 7b, in Arkansas, and my trident maple has just started to bud out. Still no leaves, but the temps have been in the mid to high 60's in the daytime and mid 40's to mid 50's at night for the past few weeks. Since your temps are lower, they may take longer to bud out. Regards, John __________________ Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. QUI ME AMAT, AMAT ET CANEM MEAM

25-Mar-2005	#5
Jay YOU CAN NOT RUSH TIME Join Date: Sep-2001 Location: Jeffersonville Vt Country: USA USDA Zone: 4 AHS Heat Zone: 3 Posts: 2,145	Toby, One thought for you regarding at least the Trident. When I moved up to Vermont in Feb 2004 I left my trees in zone 5b until the end of March and then brought them up north. I had two Tridents, one was a young tree no more than 3/4 inch at the base and the other was my pride and joy. Well the young tree is still alive (starting to bud out yesterday) and my pride and joy did not make it. The main difference in care was that the big tree was repotted in April 04 and then was allowed to be outside with the thaw and freeze cycles...I later found out that Tridents do not loke to have their roots thawed and rethawed etc. You should try and find a cool place for your tree, not to cold but not warm yet either. If nothing else bring it to the meeting Saturday the 26th (aside-Toby and I are in the same club) and it can be looked at! Jay __________________ A Bonsai student living with his trees at N 44.37 W 77.49... Think before you act... then think again... no good comes from rushing

25-Mar-2005	#6
Tobias bonsaiTALK Expert Join Date: Feb-2004 Location: Vermont Country: USA USDA Zone: 4 AHS Heat Zone: 3 Posts: 195	thanks guys, my reasoning for leaving the trees indoors for the time being is to prevent them from being exposed to the freeze thaw cycle that jay mentioned. assuming that these trees did pull through, and i'm confident that they didn't, i didn't want to expose them to this cycle, especially since nights are still in the teens and lower twenties, and i don't have any good protection to provide them. my understanding of the consequences of bringing them indoors is that, if they did bud out, growth would be very leggy, leaves would be large, etc. I understand that the indoor conditions wouldn't be ideal for these types of trees, but i'm not sure why advancing their departure from dormancy by leaving them inside for a few weeks would necessarily spell certain doom for the plants. i'm thinking, john, maybe you know something i don't. if you do, i'd very much like to be educated. I can bring the plants to tomorrows meeting, but i'm hesitant to do so. the reason is that this would require me to explain my overwintering setup, which honestly jay is so stupid that its embarrasing. its one of those things that i do where the whole time i'm saying to myself "this is really dumb. i know i'm gonna kill these trees" but i do it anyway. this will be even more ignomineous considering that suthin will be there! but i will bring them. sometimes you have to learn lessons the hard way. lesson learned. thanks again, toby __________________ ~Self-proclaimed dendrophile!

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