Zelkova broom creation

Gnome

Hello everyone I am new to this forum and have a question regarding the creation of a broom style Zelkova. I know that this has been discussed before but I have been unable to locate the answer to a very specific question.



Around the first of March I performed the V shaped trunk chop that has been described here and elsewhere. A rolled callous has formed at the perimeter of the cut but no new shoots have formed at the cut site. I have already had to remove several new buds that had formed at inappropriate locations and I am concerned that I may irreparably weaken the tree if new shoots do not form in the correct location soon.



My question: I would very much like to know if adventitious buds can be expected to arise directly from the callous tissue. In simple terms, is this process working or is the tree attempting to heal the cut, effectively bypassing the creation of the buds that I am hoping for? Should I allow any future buds to form even though they may not be in the ideal location? And if I do will this undermine the formation of buds at the cut site?



Any tips, suggestions or encouragement will be appreciated, thanks.



Norm

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bonsaikc

Norm, from what I have read (realize that I haven't performed this operation), you should be getting shoots from the callus soon. However, the callus is what makes this operation so difficult to get a believable broom. I have heard recommendations about wrapping the V tightly to prevent swelling, but if someone has a picture of a natural-looking zelkova broom from this method, I would pay good money to see all the pics, before, during, and after. In fact this might make a great web article!

The most natural zelkova brooms are made from seedlings with natural branching, or perhaps rooted cuttings. Siberian elms are ubiquitous and inexpensive, even cheap....

I know this wasn't necessarily what you are looking for, but be patient, your tree is not dead. Just let everything that pops up grow, and pick and choose later.

Chris

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Camay123

Hi Gnome,


Welcome to Bonsaitalk

Here is an article that may be worth reading, thats all I can help for now, as I am still in the process of learning this technique.

http://www.bonsaisite.com/broomelm.html

Also, Bonsai Today /26 as some excellent article on Broom and formal Upright with Zelkova.

Thanks,
Patrick

Lesley

I have a Zelcova that I have been working with for three years because I am a newbie and I didn't find info when I first did my trunk chop. A club member helped me and I don't think I got great guidance at the start.I got adventitous buds immediately and when I worked with the resulting branches (pruned in the winter) I finally got buds on the callus the next year. I am not happy with the look I have now. I have to agree with Chris and Patrick about the difficulty getting a natural appearance. I ordered the Bonsai Today Magazine that Patrick recommends and it has good info but I didn't have it when I started. John Naka's books have better info and I wish I had had them from the get go. He tells you too use floral tape near the chop to prevent bulging and then he recommends careful branch selection and staged growth to allow some upright ramification. Check out Naka, his info, technique and pictures will definitely help you!!!! Lesley

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Gnome

Thanks everyone for your help.



Chris: The callous is indeed swelling and pushing the bark outward; it is not too extreme yet. I initially had the cut area bound but recently removed the binding when I became concerned that I may need the buds under the binding. I do have a nice Elm of some sort that I collected this year. It has a natural split in the trunk at about 7 inches. I will probably cut it back to two stubs after at least one year of recovery.



Patrick: I have seen that web article before; in fact it is one of the factors that influenced me to attempt this procedure. I have several Bonsai Today issues but not the one that you cite. I will definitely send for that one if it is still available.



Lesley: Since you are the only respondent who has actually attempted this technique I have a few further questions for you if you don’t mind. Did the new buds arise directly from the callous or from the cambium layer adjacent to it? Did you remove any new buds that formed in poor locations or did you allow all to grow? I have been removing them so far but have decided to stop for fear of killing the tree. I find it interesting that you say buds formed at the callous later. Perhaps I can allow some less than ideally located branches to grow in the short term and remove them later. What are your thoughts? Naka’s books are on my wish list.



Norm

Camay123

If Stone lantern doesnt have it, Look on eBay, you can find some cheap past issue there. Thats where I bought mine and a few others.

Thanks
Patrick

Lesley

Norm,
I got my Naka books at Dallas Bonsai on-line and they didn't price gough, the cost was reasonable and well worth it, great diagrams easy to follow and I love the black and white! (<$100 for both)

About my Zelcova:
I did let the branches grow but I only chose four or five buds in the beginning and they thickened and grew very long rapidly and I got unsightly callus bulging the first year. Then I purchased Naka's books and read about taping the cut area to prevent bulging of the shoots and callous area. He also recommended allowing all the buds to grow in the spring right after the chop and prunning all but the interior shoot at the end of the season. Then following this technique again in the next few seasons/ years to build the crown and branch taper. (Rinse and Repeat, as my kids say!)

I didn't do any of this and I have been trying to catch up since (three years). I am not happy with the appearance and probably should do a trunk chop and start over again. I just re-potted because the tree needed it and I'll have to postpone the re-styling until next year. I am posting my pictures of my contest entry this Sunday, so I'll try to take a picture of my Zelcova and show you the botched job I did without any guidance. (Even though a club member helped me do the chop).

Andy's article has advice that is similiar to Naka's and it looks very helpful too! That's were you should focus (preventing bulging and developing a crown) and not on bud selection at this time, this is my humble opinion. Don't let those less than ideal branches grow, that's what I did and it didn't work for me! Seek out a club expert if you're having trouble.

Warmest Regards,
Lesley


P.S. As I recall the buds broke adjacent to the callus from the cambrium layer and as I said I did get some from the callus much later. What I remember the most was the chop area weeped and weeped. I even got a fluid bubble under the cut paste and it didn't dry up for days. The tree grew vigorously so I don't think this weaked it at the time but it may have been why I didn't get buds there til later?!

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GaryS

The smaller the diameter of the tree the better the sprouting fron the cut.

Put some wet peat moss on the cut. That will moisten it and there is a better chance of sprouting sooner. Be patient.

Be

Attached Images

Zelkova_Fall04.jpg (51.4 KB, 31 views)

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GaryS

Lesley

Norm,
Here's those pictures of a T Chop on my Zelcova that I promised you. It's rather ugly and you will see why I'm thinking of starting over if I can! Hope this is helpful if only to show you what not to do and the need to get help or better informed by reading and club/master help!
Warmest Regards,
Lesley =('):

P.S. The current areas where there is cut paste are from me trying to reduce the callus & bulges with a scalpel.

Attached Images

	Zelcova Chop-1.jpg (45.7 KB, 30 views)
	Zelcova Chop Back-1.jpg (49.4 KB, 15 views)
	Zelcova Chop Closeup-1.jpg (39.9 KB, 16 views)

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