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Japanese Quince “toyo Nishiki”

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Old 21-Nov-2005   #1
melisan
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Japanese Quince “toyo Nishiki”

I am looking for any advice on pruning and caring for my Japanese Quince that Bonsaikoi got me my birthday.

Melissa
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Old 22-Nov-2005   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melisan
I am looking for any advice on pruning and caring for my Japanese Quince that Bonsaikoi got me my birthday.

Melissa


Hello Melissa,

Are you lucky or what....? I have just bought two small ones [still waiting for delivery] from a nursery in the UK, can't wait, as they say. This form of Chaenomeles is unavailable over here in Holland, a very few Japanese bonsai imports come thru, but at great cost. Got one of those this year and shall post a pic for you If I can locate it.

If your tree was mine I'd let it grow for a whole season, that is all of 2006, just to see what coloured flowers you get, and by the looks of your pic, you'll probably get all three, white, pink and red.

In the meantime study your tree, and think about style, yours is wonderful material, so please take time before you go about anykind of pruning.

Treat it as you would any other Quince, don't let it dry out, but don't overwater either.

Success lucky one,

Nigel
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Old 22-Nov-2005   #3
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Melissa, here's a note I picked up [from where I know not].

Chaenomeles speciosa 'Toyo Nishiki' - Its outstanding feature is that it may bear red, white and pink flowers all on the same plant. Not all plants bear red flowers, and a plant may not have red flowers every spring. Murata claims that only plants of 50 years or older have red flowers. This would not explain lack of red flowers on a previously red plant. Strangely, grafts and cuttings made from old plants usually don't have red flowers for a few years.

Also a pic of my Japanese import.

Nigel
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Old 22-Nov-2005   #4
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Melissa, I've just repainted your pic and resized it....OK?
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Old 22-Nov-2005   #5
Brent
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The flower color is an interesting subject. I have been studying it and experimenting with it for years. Apparently it is controlled genetically. At first I thought it was what is known as a "Chimera", that is a type of genetic mutation which allows different veins of genetic expression to exist side by side in the meristem. This would explain the striping or veining of colors in the individual petals which is often present. But it doesn't explain the presence of the red flowers.

For years, my plants never showed the red flowers pictured in the books, only pink, white, and multi colored flowers, but no red. There were all sorts of stories about what you had to do to get the red flowers. Then one day, a fellow nurseryman whom I was visiting, said "Come here and look at this". On a huge 'Toyo Nishiki' that was planted in the ground, there was a small stem of all red flowers while the rest of the entire plant was the normal pink and white. The red flowered stem had NO pink and white flowers. Later, one of my own plants did the same thing. I tagged the red flowering stem so I could trace it each year. For the five years or so that I kept track, that branch produced nothing but red flowers as it continued to grow. The rest of the plant produced pink and white flowers, but no red flowers anywhere.

I propagated new plants from the wood of the red flowering stem. The new propagates produced only red flowers. I talked to a plant geneticist about this and she said it was a genotype. That is, if I am remembering correctly, that there is no mutation, the genetic code for all three colors is in every plant (remember that ALL cultivars are asexually reproduced). Normally, only the pink and white flowers are normally expressed, or the multi colored flowers. But sometimes, and no one is quite sure why, there will be a change and the red flower genes will be expressed instead. Apparently this is a stable switch, since none of my red flowering propagates to this day have ever shown a pink or white flower (about 15 years).

So, if you buy a true 'Toyo Nishiki', the odds are about 99% that it will flower pink and white, but not red. If you keep a plant long enough and allow it to grow freely, the odds are pretty good that you will see a red branch appear before 20 years, but it isn't guaranteed. And only this branch will be red. It will start out as a single flower bud and grow out normally (if it isn't pruned off).

Now, having said all this, there are some oddball 'Toyo Nishiki' expressions as well. These include the multicolored flowers, striping, and very rarely, a stem with true alternating pink, white and RED flowers. Whether this last one is stable or not, I don't know yet. I found a cutting about three years ago with alternating three color flowers. So far, it is stable, showing the same pattern each year. When it gets a little larger, I will begin propagating it and continue to follow it's progress. If it remains true, I will probably introduce it as a new cultivar 'Toyo Nishiki Improved'.

Back to the original question and situation, you can graft red flowering stems quite easily onto your pink and white bonsai to get the desired effect. I propagate and sell both so that you can do this. You will have a true three color 'Toyo Nishiki' and you can put the red stem wherever you desire for maximum effect.

Brent
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Old 22-Nov-2005   #6
melisan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzerbon
Melissa, I've just repainted your pic and resized it....OK?



Thanks.. Looks much better than the black glare caused by the side of my refrigerator

Melissa
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Old 22-Nov-2005   #7
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to flower red or not to flower red.. that is the ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent
Back to the original question and situation, you can graft red flowering stems quite easily onto your pink and white bonsai to get the desired effect. I propagate and sell both so that you can do this. You will have a true three color 'Toyo Nishiki' and you can put the red stem wherever you desire for maximum effect.

Brent
EvergreenGardenworks.com
see our blog at http://BonsaiNurseryman.typepad.com



Hello Brent

Thank you for so much information about this tree. It will be exciting to see what this tree does and I will post pictures later of its flowers.
I would like to visit your nursery and get a red flowering stem for a graft next year.

I will hold off on pruning and let it grow. I suppose I could plant it in the ground to allow it to really grow in size. Humm... need to ponder this more.

Thanks again,

Melissa
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Old 23-Nov-2005   #8
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Many thanks Brent,

Finding such valuable information is just so incredible, I immediately posted it into my archives, the grow habits of some trees are so complicated it seems to me, yep invaluable.

Melissa,

Planting in the ground or even a large pot [preferably] for the meanwhile is a good idea, but the Quince has a reputation, as I understand, for not thickening its trunk as does many other species. Looking forwards to seeing your future pics.

Nigel
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Old 23-Nov-2005   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzerbon
Many thanks Brent,

Finding such valuable information is just so incredible, I immediately posted it into my archives, the grow habits of some trees are so complicated it seems to me, yep invaluable.

Nigel, I did the same. Brent's understanding of this type of quince is quite remarkable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozzerbon
Melissa,

Planting in the ground or even a large pot [preferably] for the meanwhile is a good idea, but the Quince has a reputation, as I understand, for not thickening its trunk as does many other species. Looking forwards to seeing your future pics.

Nigel

A larger pot is a good thought. But, if the ground will grow the trunk thicker, I may opt for that instead. I wonder if you or Brent have any thoughts on fertilizing Should I push growth with a higher balanced fertilizer such as a 10-10-10 or 20-20-20 biweekly?

Thanks again
Melissa
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Old 23-Nov-2005   #10
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Sorry, don't understand the 10-10-10 or the 20-20-20 fertilizers thing, or any other combination of letters for that matter.

Have no programme of feeding for any of my trees, they just grow and grow, all are in 100% akadama, and are closely cosseted, so when I feed it is quite haphazard.

Will be VERY interested in what Brent has to say.

Nigel
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