FredL

Look, Will. with all due respect, I just don't think you're getting it.

You talk about agreeing and disagreeing, determining who's right, discovering that you were wrong. I do not like to think in that mode. In discussing things, my working hypothesis is that anybody that has a comment to make has got some understanding that is interesting and probably has some truth to it. The issue is not whether (s)he is right or wrong, but whether I can "get" what he's saying. Can I expand my understanding, not prove who's right and who's wrong. Generally, if I perceive myself in disagreement, I like to learn more about what the other person's experience or understanding has been. In most cases, we both end up learning more in a way that is far less painful than arguing it out.

Obviously, in the profession I pursued, this is a far more effective way to operate than in the mode of debating issues and proving who is wrong and who is right. I tend to seek out situations in which my paradigm works and avoid situations in which it is ineffective. Increasingly, I came to view BonsaiTalk as a situation in which my approach is ineffective. Well, I didn't articulate the problem in quite those terms, but, that's what it came down to.

I perceive it as rude and offensive to try to prove somebody wrong; in effect, try to force my opinion on them. When I fall into that mode, as I do when I am provoked, I end up with a very bad feeling about myself and a lot of animosity towards the other person. When, on the other hand, I find myself dealing with somebody who deals with differing perceptions the same way I do, I feel good about myself and alot of affection for the other person. In other words, "friendship" develops.

Now the point that I don't think you're getting is that what I'm saying is that I do not like conversation to be about agreeing and disagreeing. I do not like to look at life and conversation in those terms. I've tried to express my way of dealing with differing perceptions in terms of "let's explore this subject in an effort to get closer to the truth" rather than "let's argue about this and determine who's right". I'm very comfortable with discussing a subject without any real effort to come to closure. I know alot of people aren't. My friends do not try to prove themselves right at my expense; I refrain from trying to force my opinions on them.

Now, I'm not saying that the way I think is the only right way. It is the right way - or at least used to be - the right way to develop computer systems. It may not have been the right way to practice medicine or teach university classes; I can not say. It is the right way for me to practice bonsai or converse about it. It apparently is not for you. To which I say, "God bless. You have every right to be as argumentative as you wish and to choose friends that feel the same way. Given the way I'm put together, I prefer not to be drawn into it".

My experience does not indicate to me that, as a result, I must go through life friendless and alone. It does mean that I prefer to handle what you term "disagreement" with tact and consideration.

Fred