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Ron makes a good point about dumpsters, though. The mindset of searching for trash to turn into bonsai is wrong. That will indeed lead directly to trashy bonsai. What you should look for in a dumpster are plants that are perfectly suited to bonsai and were thrown away out of ignorance. A stubby, broken mugho pine with a 3'' trunk is exactly the kind of thing a garden center would throw out because they think it wouldn't sell. It's not a question of health, just rent. If the time the plant has to sit there and take up space costs more than the money that will be made on the purchase , the plant goes bye-bye. That is the time when bonsaiists should swoop in.

Chris, in the US, we have four distinct types of stores.

1) Bonsai Nurseries: The good ones purchase raw material, then sit on it and allow it to grow, thicken, ramify, etc. before it is put out for sale. Many of these trees are also pre-styled. If you can afford it, these are where you find the best raw material. Price tag (for comparison): 5-20 x Normal

2) Plant Nurseries: These are where you find the best affordable raw material. The plants found are usually professional landscape plants. This is where you find 25-gallon stock trees, 12-foot tall landscape trees, 3' wide shrubbery, as well as a large selection of tropicals sold as houseplants. Price tag: 2-3 x Normal

3) Home Improvement Garden Centers: Home Depot and Lowe's are the big ones. The likelihood of finding quality stock here is minimal, but the cost justifies at least taking a look once a week or so. Spend an hour outside, poking and prodding. This is the store most likely to put perfectly good stock in the dumpster. The staff usually knows very little about horticulture in general, so don't expect much. Price Tag: Normal

4) Big Box Stores: Wal-mart is the first one to everyone's mind. Just about the only thing worthwhile you can find here are stumps for carving. The employees know nothing, including the price most of the time. Only worth the trip if you have to go there anyway and the regular checkout lines are so long you go to checkout at the garden center counter. Price Tag: 1/2 to 2/3 x Normal

I expect most people (like me) spend most of their time at #2. The cost/value ratio is pretty high. You will almost never find Bonsai nursery-quality stock, but most people I think (like me) recognize that $200-300 is a lot of money to spend on something we might kill through ignorance. Better to spend a lot less money on a tree that we can be proud of and not mourn too much if it dies. I for one don't have a lot of money to be spending on highest-quality, pre-styled bonsai. What I do have is a lot of time and enthusiasm. I still shop at bonsai nurseries. Where else to buy tools and pots? But I am just not ready for those high-end trees, especially when I know that someone better than me can turn them into something really spectacular.

I used to work at a high-end aquarium store and have seen it happen a million times. Someone spends so much money on their tank that it means a little too much to them. Then something catastrophic happens, they lose their investment, and never return to the hobby. It is a real tragedy. Don't let this happen to you! Will started this thread for people who can't afford bonsai nurseries, it's obvious. Those kind of people (me) need to be sure not to overspend themselves just to get that Have-To-Have-It-Now Trident. If you lose it later, it hurts waaaaay too much. Those plants will be around for years to come. Be patient, and nurture yourself as well as your plants.

Another long-winded reply from the Frog.

Copyright 2004. Any replication, duplication, publication, or otherwise unauthorized use of this monologue without the express written consent of the author is prohibited. Some rules and restrictions may apply. See contest rules for entry.

31-Dec-2004	#30
Frogboy B.S. Detector Join Date: Nov-2004 Location: Atlanta, GA Country: USA USDA Zone: 7 AHS Heat Zone: 7 Posts: 172	Ron makes a good point about dumpsters, though. The mindset of searching for trash to turn into bonsai is wrong. That will indeed lead directly to trashy bonsai. What you should look for in a dumpster are plants that are perfectly suited to bonsai and were thrown away out of ignorance. A stubby, broken mugho pine with a 3'' trunk is exactly the kind of thing a garden center would throw out because they think it wouldn't sell. It's not a question of health, just rent. If the time the plant has to sit there and take up space costs more than the money that will be made on the purchase , the plant goes bye-bye. That is the time when bonsaiists should swoop in. Chris, in the US, we have four distinct types of stores. 1) Bonsai Nurseries: The good ones purchase raw material, then sit on it and allow it to grow, thicken, ramify, etc. before it is put out for sale. Many of these trees are also pre-styled. If you can afford it, these are where you find the best raw material. Price tag (for comparison): 5-20 x Normal 2) Plant Nurseries: These are where you find the best affordable raw material. The plants found are usually professional landscape plants. This is where you find 25-gallon stock trees, 12-foot tall landscape trees, 3' wide shrubbery, as well as a large selection of tropicals sold as houseplants. Price tag: 2-3 x Normal 3) Home Improvement Garden Centers: Home Depot and Lowe's are the big ones. The likelihood of finding quality stock here is minimal, but the cost justifies at least taking a look once a week or so. Spend an hour outside, poking and prodding. This is the store most likely to put perfectly good stock in the dumpster. The staff usually knows very little about horticulture in general, so don't expect much. Price Tag: Normal 4) Big Box Stores: Wal-mart is the first one to everyone's mind. Just about the only thing worthwhile you can find here are stumps for carving. The employees know nothing, including the price most of the time. Only worth the trip if you have to go there anyway and the regular checkout lines are so long you go to checkout at the garden center counter. Price Tag: 1/2 to 2/3 x Normal I expect most people (like me) spend most of their time at #2. The cost/value ratio is pretty high. You will almost never find Bonsai nursery-quality stock, but most people I think (like me) recognize that $200-300 is a lot of money to spend on something we might kill through ignorance. Better to spend a lot less money on a tree that we can be proud of and not mourn too much if it dies. I for one don't have a lot of money to be spending on highest-quality, pre-styled bonsai. What I do have is a lot of time and enthusiasm. I still shop at bonsai nurseries. Where else to buy tools and pots? But I am just not ready for those high-end trees, especially when I know that someone better than me can turn them into something really spectacular. I used to work at a high-end aquarium store and have seen it happen a million times. Someone spends so much money on their tank that it means a little too much to them. Then something catastrophic happens, they lose their investment, and never return to the hobby. It is a real tragedy. Don't let this happen to you! Will started this thread for people who can't afford bonsai nurseries, it's obvious. Those kind of people (me) need to be sure not to overspend themselves just to get that Have-To-Have-It-Now Trident. If you lose it later, it hurts waaaaay too much. Those plants will be around for years to come. Be patient, and nurture yourself as well as your plants. Another long-winded reply from the Frog. Copyright 2004. Any replication, duplication, publication, or otherwise unauthorized use of this monologue without the express written consent of the author is prohibited. Some rules and restrictions may apply. See contest rules for entry. __________________ I wear hip boots for a reason.