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Yes, you're right it is too dense to see much at this point. Thinning the branches will allow sunlight to enter and help to activate interior buds. The branches you keep will depend on their position, health and how well they ramify (break into smaller branches).

The photos you have posted don't show much taper in the trunk. You will need to terminate it at some point. You'll be using a branch to replace the apex. Sometimes the branches form upright in a good place. Sometimes you need to bend another promising branch upwards. Other times you can fake it with a deadwood top. How tall you make this tree will depend on where the taper stops, or where you have a promising point to develop a new branch as the apex. Usually that is usually at a height that is somewhere between 6 and 12 trunk widths.

When you cut back, you need to be sure to leave healthy buds at the tips of spruce or the branch may die off.

So to go about this,

1. examine the trunk from bottom to top and see if you can find any taper in it, or find a point at which the taper seems to stop. Taper may be more evident from one side of the tree than from another side.

2. See if you can find a point where a branch could be substituted for an apex. A well placed branch would already be thick, would be pointing upwards somewhat and would be on the "front side of the tree." Front is determined by root display, scars, movement, branch placement and so forth.

3. Get a chopstick or something similar and see if you can determine where the primary surface roots are. Often they will lie on the same sides as the primary branches. You want a nice view of roots. It may not be a perfect radial root system at this time, but if there are crossing or missing roots, that may be the back of your future tree.

With a formal upright style in mind you can do the following:

Thin away any branches with the following ideas in mind

Identify potential left, right and rear branches as you proceed up the lower third of the trunk. Save any that you feel may be useful by position or character. With conifers it can be very important not to cut off primary branches because they are slow to develop, so be sure to err on the side of leaving too many!

a) Remove branches that are close together and immediately atop or beneath another more important branch.
b) Remove a branches that appear on opposite side of the trunk from another, more important branch. (bar branches)
c) remove branches that point directly forward in the lower 1/2 of the tree
d) Allow the branches to be closer together as you go up the trunk
e) Remove branches that are not well placed if they do not fork into other branches or have any foliage except at your tips.

The best branches, with respect to the formal upright design:

*Are neither too thick for their position (should be rather smaller than the trunk at their position)
*Are not too thin for their position (A "good" branch should be thicker than the branches above it, and thinner than the ones below it.
*Are not directly opposed to other branches
* Branch well into smaller branches and twigs with buds along their length.
* Have nice taper and form that complement the trunk.
* Are not mis-shapen

So you have some thinning to do. Go ahead and leave twice as many branches as you think you need, then rephotograph the tree and we'll have some more comments!

Regards,

Matt

12-Jan-2004	#6
TreeBay Tips:5¢ Advice:Free *MODERATOR GROUP* Join Date: Aug-2001 Location: Silicon Valley Country: USA USDA Zone: 9 AHS Heat Zone: 4 Posts: 9,745	Yes, you're right it is too dense to see much at this point. Thinning the branches will allow sunlight to enter and help to activate interior buds. The branches you keep will depend on their position, health and how well they ramify (break into smaller branches). The photos you have posted don't show much taper in the trunk. You will need to terminate it at some point. You'll be using a branch to replace the apex. Sometimes the branches form upright in a good place. Sometimes you need to bend another promising branch upwards. Other times you can fake it with a deadwood top. How tall you make this tree will depend on where the taper stops, or where you have a promising point to develop a new branch as the apex. Usually that is usually at a height that is somewhere between 6 and 12 trunk widths. When you cut back, you need to be sure to leave healthy buds at the tips of spruce or the branch may die off. So to go about this, 1. examine the trunk from bottom to top and see if you can find any taper in it, or find a point at which the taper seems to stop. Taper may be more evident from one side of the tree than from another side. 2. See if you can find a point where a branch could be substituted for an apex. A well placed branch would already be thick, would be pointing upwards somewhat and would be on the "front side of the tree." Front is determined by root display, scars, movement, branch placement and so forth. 3. Get a chopstick or something similar and see if you can determine where the primary surface roots are. Often they will lie on the same sides as the primary branches. You want a nice view of roots. It may not be a perfect radial root system at this time, but if there are crossing or missing roots, that may be the back of your future tree. With a formal upright style in mind you can do the following: Thin away any branches with the following ideas in mind Identify potential left, right and rear branches as you proceed up the lower third of the trunk. Save any that you feel may be useful by position or character. With conifers it can be very important not to cut off primary branches because they are slow to develop, so be sure to err on the side of leaving too many! a) Remove branches that are close together and immediately atop or beneath another more important branch. b) Remove a branches that appear on opposite side of the trunk from another, more important branch. (bar branches) c) remove branches that point directly forward in the lower 1/2 of the tree d) Allow the branches to be closer together as you go up the trunk e) Remove branches that are not well placed if they do not fork into other branches or have any foliage except at your tips. The best branches, with respect to the formal upright design: Are neither too thick for their position (should be rather smaller than the trunk at their position) Are not too thin for their position (A "good" branch should be thicker than the branches above it, and thinner than the ones below it. Are not directly opposed to other branches Branch well into smaller branches and twigs with buds along their length. * Have nice taper and form that complement the trunk. * Are not mis-shapen So you have some thinning to do. Go ahead and leave twice as many branches as you think you need, then rephotograph the tree and we'll have some more comments! Regards, Matt __________________ Want to be a seller on bonsaiAUCTIONS? Get authorized today! bonsaiTALK: Over 100,005.36 Megabytes Served this Month!