FredL

Thank you, Attila, for speaking my thoughts much better than I am able. Maybe when I was younger I could express things better than I can now. I know that I find myself fumbling for words and am seldom very satisfied with what I come up with now.

I definitely frequently overeact to much of what Andy says and I think it has to do with the very authoritarian tone that his messages frequently convey to me. I've never responded well to authority and did poorly, for the most part, in most formal educational settings. Yet, it is hard to argue that I did not build my professional career on an extremely rigorous and demanding intellectual discipline. Somehow, with virtually no formal training relevant to Computer Systems Development, I figured how to do it, even developing a modest reputation as something of an "expert", lecturing at many industry forums and even to IBM system engineers a time or two. If I could not carry the approach that I generally take to learning over into Bonsai, I doubt I would stay with it very long. And it is definitely not the "Instructor as God" model.

It is clear to me that Walter Pall and many other highly successful bonsai artists have been essentially self taught. Unless I am completely misconstruing what Andy is saying, Walter and others seem to me to demonstrate that that there are other paths to bonsai mastery than the one Andy is presenting. No doubt, there are many who might profit greatly by following the path that Andy lays out. I don't think that I'd be one of them.

I have not done what many have done by laying out quotes and then responding directly, line by line. Perhaps I am being too self indulgent in simply presenting the thoughts that occur to me after I read Andy's comments and those that follow. I prefer this method of discussion, however, and, in fact, would prefer not to present my thoughts as direct responses to the points made by others at all. I have enormous faith that in a free discussion, the best ideas will eventually prevail. Also, that they will prevail more quickly if everyone is treated with tact and courtesy. I have seen much ridicule of newcomers and bonsai enthusiasts of modest talents and the assertion that many of them are simply looking for "ego-stroking" and have no genuine desire to improve; that their biggest problems are complacency and self indulgence. I don't think this is true and I dislike seeing people treated as though it was.

A friend of mine several years ago had a comment he used to make that I liked alot: "all that an "expert" is, is an ordinary guy with a briefcase more than 50 miles from home". My thought, exactly.

Fred