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For what it's worth.

In my opinion, forums such as this (and four hour workshops for that matter) are providers of raw information. This information is useless to some and invaluble to others, but in all cases has to be treated as unsubstantiated until proven.

Also, what happens on this forum and others like it has little to do with teaching or learning, but is all about discussion and debate. It's one persons opinion (or knowledege, or artistry, or talent) against another ones conviction(or knowledege, or artistry, or talent), as is borne out in the various threads of this kind.
So what chance has a beginner in to this fantastic hobby (lifestyle, art, worldview, addiction, etc......) got if even the most renowned (learned, outspoken, loudest, selfconfident, selfstyled, narcistic, etc.) figures within this community cannot agree on anything more than the most basic principles?

IMHO, converting the raw information gathered from any source in to useable knowledge is a journey that takes a lot of trial and error as well as determination to be the best you can. It also takes time and effort and some degree of selfishness. Whats the use of a four hour workshop if you don't ask YOUR questions to the "master"and get him to spend as much of his time with you, as you can.
No one can tell you exactly what to do with your tree or predict what it may look like in the years to come, BUT.......a good teacher can plant ideas, give advise on care and horticultural needs of the species and teach, hopefully one on one, the techniques required to turn ideas in to reality. From there on its your own artistic expression and talent, practise, boring routine, more pratice and a good deal of luck, with the ultimate pre requiste of good material to start with.

On the subject of teaching, dont knock the power of routine and repetition. Having spent my first five years in a german school, I still do all my multipications and divisions in german even though I hardly speak it now. Why? We learned by repetition (one times two is two, two times two is four, etc.), reciting the times tables many times every week and this has stuck with me until today, 35 years on. It makes sense and the answer comes automatically when I say Two times Two.

Make of this what you will. As i said raw information.

Mike

1-Dec-2003	#10
mkonig I stand and stare a lot Join Date: Oct-2003 Location: Leicester Country: United Kingdom USDA Zone: 8 AHS Heat Zone: ? Posts: 646	For what it's worth. In my opinion, forums such as this (and four hour workshops for that matter) are providers of raw information. This information is useless to some and invaluble to others, but in all cases has to be treated as unsubstantiated until proven. Also, what happens on this forum and others like it has little to do with teaching or learning, but is all about discussion and debate. It's one persons opinion (or knowledege, or artistry, or talent) against another ones conviction(or knowledege, or artistry, or talent), as is borne out in the various threads of this kind. So what chance has a beginner in to this fantastic hobby (lifestyle, art, worldview, addiction, etc......) got if even the most renowned (learned, outspoken, loudest, selfconfident, selfstyled, narcistic, etc.) figures within this community cannot agree on anything more than the most basic principles? IMHO, converting the raw information gathered from any source in to useable knowledge is a journey that takes a lot of trial and error as well as determination to be the best you can. It also takes time and effort and some degree of selfishness. Whats the use of a four hour workshop if you don't ask YOUR questions to the "master"and get him to spend as much of his time with you, as you can. No one can tell you exactly what to do with your tree or predict what it may look like in the years to come, BUT.......a good teacher can plant ideas, give advise on care and horticultural needs of the species and teach, hopefully one on one, the techniques required to turn ideas in to reality. From there on its your own artistic expression and talent, practise, boring routine, more pratice and a good deal of luck, with the ultimate pre requiste of good material to start with. On the subject of teaching, dont knock the power of routine and repetition. Having spent my first five years in a german school, I still do all my multipications and divisions in german even though I hardly speak it now. Why? We learned by repetition (one times two is two, two times two is four, etc.), reciting the times tables many times every week and this has stuck with me until today, 35 years on. It makes sense and the answer comes automatically when I say Two times Two. Make of this what you will. As i said raw information. Mike __________________ I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person