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Seligman 75, huh? Is there a complete refrence? Or is this out of a thesis and quoted thusly?

I was referring to Seligman's original study in 1965 (the '7' is a typo for which I apologise) in which he discovered the phenomenon of ‘Learned Helplessness’. However, for complete references relevant to this topic, see for example:

Garber, J. and Seligman, M.E.P. (Eds.). (1980). Human Helplessness: Theory and Applications. New York: Academic Press.

Peterson, C., Maier, S., and Seligman, M.E.P. (1993). Learned Helplessness: A Theory for the Age of Personal Control. New York: Oxford University Press.

Seligman, M.E.P. (1991). Helplessness: On Depression, Development, and Death. (2nd Ed.). New York: W.H. Freeman.

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Nuts and bolts:
Beginner makes efforts, beginner is praised for efforts, efforts are really mediocre, but due to raise beginner thinks he/she knows craft, beginner makes same mistakes over and over, mediocre trees ensue and are presented as bonsai with "X number of years of trainng", Beginner makes same mistakes over X years, thus never really advances, even though viewed with awe in club is really still a beginner. It is a simple arithmetic issue, if realized experience is equal to 0, then years x experience would be X x 0=0, reagardless of the number of years attempted.

This is a flawed argument in which you are confusing effort with result. I do make a distinction between the two in my previous post.

You can praise a beginner for the effort they put in to a process, and still point out the flaws in the result. The effort applied by a student and the results of that effort are separate issues. My point was that to simply dismiss the effort and point out the flaws can be counter productive.

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I trained graduate students (and a bunch of undergraduate research students) for a long time. I always tried to be the kindly mentor, but it was the kids who were challenged to improve, by deconstruction of their efforts, that succeeded the most by becoming the truly excellent and independent scholars.

Deconstructing their efforts is different from dismissing them.

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This should bring on a spathe of pseudointellectual babble about teaching methods and approaches from a psychosial perspective.

I don't see why my simple observation should bring on a spate of 'pseudo-intellectual babble' about teaching methods. I consider myself to be qualified to make such an observation. I have my B.Sc. in Psychological Science, I am a Ph.D in Psychology and I am a Chartered Psychologist (so, of course I am going to take a psychological perspective and learning is a psychological process). I am a Senior Lecturer at a University in London and I have been teaching at undergraduate and post graduate level for 10 years. Over recent years I have also been involved in research into Teaching and Learning (see references below).

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I am going outside now to enjoy the sunshine and have great thoughts, or mediocre ones, here in Toulouse among les Pyrenees (no diacritical marks on my USA computer), on a fine late summer day in France.

John

Enjoy the day. It’s a bit cloudy here in the UK, but then, for us it’s been a very poor summer overall.

References:

Hixenbaugh, P., Pearson, C., & Williams, D. (2006). Student perspectives on personal tutoring: What do students want? In L. Thomas & P. Hixenbaugh (Eds), Personal tutoring in higher education (pp. 45-56). Stoke on Trent, UK and Sterling, USA: Trentham Books.

Hixenbaugh, P., Dewart, H., Drees, D. & Williams, D. (2005) Peer e-mentoring: Enhancement of the first year experience. Psychology Learning and Teaching. 5 (1), pp.8-14

Dewart, H., Golding, J., Hixenbaugh, P., Murphy, R., Towell, T., Urwin, P., and Williams D. What is student life really like? A university-wide psychological study. Presented at HERDSA conference Perth Australia, July 2006.

Dewart, H., Hixenbaugh, P., and Williams, D. Does ‘feeling you belong' matter? Integration and health in first year University students. Presented at First Year in Higher Education Conference Brisbane July 2006.

Hixenbaugh, P., Dewart H., and Williams, D (2006) The First Year Experience: Surveying Key factors in student progression. Poster presented at The Challenge of Diversity: Teaching, Support and Student Learning NUI. Galway, Ireland, 8-9 June 2006.

Dewart, H., Hixenbaugh, P., Drees, D. & Williams, D. (2003). Electronic peer mentoring: A scheme to enhance support and guidance and the student learning experience. Presented at: Educause in Australasia Conference. Adelaide.