ripsgreentree: hi brian good to have you back
alkeppler: Do you think that these have been made too fast, with not enough time for stretching out the chops?
ripsgreentree: so al have you seen the defoliated photos and where would you cut the first trident?
alkeppler: let me look again
Brian: something happened got disconeected
ripsgreentree: yes all of us
bonsaiboy: yeah comp needs the chop i think
ripsgreentree: as long as the shohin is in a bonsai pot the chop will not change much
ripsgreentree: brian I posted a shohin trident for you to look at in show and tell
Brian: will look
alkeppler: That is a problem tree for me. I don't know where I would chop it
Brian: oh no
ripsgreentree: well something has to give becaus the upper chop is a bad one
alkeppler: The lower one is not much better
alkeppler: The only thing you can do now is GROW BABY GROW, and hope that it all stretches out
ripsgreentree: Ok it is time to vote shall we toss this tree on the junk heap because of the chops?
Brian : at this time i would like to open the bidding @ 10.00 us
bonsaiboy: i will have it
alkeppler: Well its not junk. Time will tell. I think the possibility for a good chokkan is still there, just not in the next year
ripsgreentree: no one is asking this tree to be finished this year or next this is just potensai
alkeppler: Some of those branches are starting to thicken and have not been wired, the will be hard to correct later
ripsgreentree: It can go back into the field to grow and thats ok
alkeppler: I understand that. But what I was trying to tell you about growing. You can't just make wood. You have to design the tree from its start
ripsgreentree: If I were going to start branch structure I would cut all of the large branches off and start with new buds from the trunk
alkeppler:Branch placemant, taper, curves in the trunk
ripsgreentree: do all bonsai have to have curved trunks?
Brian: nope
ripsgreentree: Al, this is young material and I am still learning
bonsaiboy: how old is the first tree you showed us
ripsgreentree: nothing in this tree is in stone and everything can be changed
ripsgreentree: 5 years
alkeppler: absolutley not. But if they are going to be straight then they have to have taper and this tree does not. it grows 3 inches then a huge chop. then it grows half the diameter of the bottom of the trunk and goes for half the distance of the tree
alkeppler: that portion goes broom stick straight with absolutly no taper
ripsgreentree: Ok so your vote is no good what would you do to correct it
alkeppler: then the tree makes some changes in direction at the top ruining it for chokkan
alkeppler: Like I said. hope it will stretch and lose those shoulders
ripsgreentree: I am asking again how would you correct it
Brian: can the shoulders be cut at with concaves to flatten some and re heal ??
alkeppler: I would work on branch structure now to induce the help in stretching the taper and make it more fluid and not so jerky
bonsaiboy: i liked the photo where it was chopped at the first branch you could see it would take a while but through time the trunk shape would look natural with alot of movment
ripsgreentree: brb I am going to post one last photo
Brian: sorry had too do it
alkeppler:I'm bbq'ing a tri tip and I already burnt the bottom once
bonsaiboy: hi all got to go happy chopping talk to you all soon byyyyyyyeeeeeeee
ripsgreentree: I am back
alkeppler: later
>>> bonsaiboy drops an expensive concave cutter and crawls out of bonsaiTALK Chat. :
ripsgreentree: there is one last photo that shows the foundation
alkeppler: where's the pic
ripsgreentree: sorry you don't look the tree its at show and tell
ripsgreentree: matt has added the entire conversation to the bottom of the thread
Brian: oh no
ripsgreentree: brian why oh no?
alkeppler: That's wonderful. but what has that got to do with all the stuff going on 3" above that?
alkeppler: What do those roots have to do with taper?
Brian: we've been logged every word printed ,, even this
alkeppler: ChickenBrian?
ripsgreentree: gee al I really dont see or agree with all of your problems but I will keep trying
Brian: feel like a guinea type animal
ripsgreentree: don't confess to any thing and you will be ok
alkeppler: You feel this tree has the kind of taper that you find appealing
Brian: how about this angle al
ripsgreentree: well if I didn't like it I wouldn't have started with it
Brian: i have to be careful or they turn x rated
alkeppler: Thats the left view, the only one that I said had any looks
Brian: isn't there enough tree here to make 3 trees ??
Brian: i have a brainstorm
alkeppler: Why would you want to start air layering trees from something that you just took 5 years to create
alkeppler: Why not make something great from the get go since you start with pencil size seedlings?
ripsgreentree: what technique would you use to get it from seedling to here
alkeppler: This might be something you could do if you ran across this material at the nursery and got it for a steal. This man is a propagator and grower.
Brian: i have a great idea
ripsgreentree: Al you say that like I am supposed to know something
alkeppler: You do
ripsgreentree: I am still asking what you would have done to help this material?
alkeppler: You got the technique. now you just need to develop the eye
ripsgreentree: that is so much trash I see as much good and bad bonsai as you do
ripsgreentree: I don't think that this tree is as bad as you are making out
alkeppler: I would have made the first chop sooner. I would have done the first chop at a root pruning so to make the first chop on the back of the tree.
alkeppler: I ask the important questions like if you feel this ois good in your eyes and you have let me know that you find it adequate
Brian: 4 hrs work into that virt
ripsgreentree: Well the field is open to you al when ever you want to come out and help us get things going
alkeppler: I disagree. But then, I don't own it so it a moot point
ripsgreentree: One of the things that I agreed to is to make changes to the material if the suggestions were good ones
alkeppler: not me, What does ansy have to say about this piece of material
alkeppler: Sorry Andy
ripsgreentree: who is ansy?
ripsgreentree: he has no problem with it
alkeppler: Yikes!
ripsgreentree: like I said al sorry that you don't like the tree but it can be changed
ripsgreentree: it was never intended to be offered as finished work
alkeppler: It's not a matter of me liking it or not. This is what you have put up to discuss. I feel that you have better things to come and it would be better to focus our energies there
ripsgreentree: Al I will let you post the next material to work on
ripsgreentree: This material is not as bad as you make it out
alkeppler: I don't have any material to work on. But, I am always looking
ripsgreentree: yes and I am always growing ....good night Al I will talk to you later
>>>ripsgreentree sneaks quietly out of bonsaiTALK Chat. :
Brian: well rips that took care of 3 hrs
alkeppler: When did I say it was bad. I have just listed the shortcomings as I see them. I feel that you have focused most of your questions directly at me like it's some sort of contest