bonsaiTALK Community - View Single Post - The Conspiracy To Undermine The Art Of Bonsai

Wrong forum Will... you know that. It takes far less effort to heel in and defend opinion because it can't be challenged easily... Funny how the the "Art" forum gets far less traffic. Not as fun as all this I suppose...

Crap. I promised my self I'd just lurk.

Additionally, Van Gogh studied art seriously as well - mastered the skills of drawing and painting and worked extensively in the styles in vogue (earlier work is in the style of the Dutch Masters- first recognized masterpiece- "The Potato Eaters"). Absinthe and mental health theories aside, his work was derivative and based on solid theory- granted it was not the favored norms of the time. He chose to emphasize, sometimes to an extreme, certain artistic fundamentals over others. Much as Kimura does.

The problem we have is the frickin "happy to be me" culture that's been created for us... be dissatisfied about everything but be too distracted or complacent to do anything about it. Wrap it all up in a self esteem bandaid... You can be an artist- it doesn't take skill or craft or even a creative gift. Simply hang out your shingle- and b@#$ if the trained artists don't accept you. While arguing with them make sure you scam as many of their original ideas as you can.

I'm being cynical, of course, but as soon as anyone other than Pall debates a point the tone turns "elitist".

Any exchange based on the premise that all ideas are equally valid is doomed to this never ending cycle... bonsai ain't science- it's not easily disproven by facts over-riding facts. In real scientific forum, if your data doesn't back up your theory you don't get to say well "my opinion is" at some relatively early point you're belittled and shunned. Career over. No room for "the data takes so long to collect" or "I'm not in it for the grants and actually contributing to mankind's knowledge base- I just love the pursuit of science".

Time and time again it's been said here (usually much more diplomatically) - "put up or shut up". Maybe there IS a pony under your pile of sh@#$ but forgive me if I tell you the pile ain't moving, it stinks and everyone's chances of finding one are better off in the open pasture where there's some strange horse-like movements going on. Don't demand an audience from the pasture-pony-hunting crew- keep groping and if you find one, by all means show us how much better it is than ours.

Attilla indirectly states a critical point- there is such a thing as bad bonsai.

Exclusive of Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese, Amurrican, European...

The diplomatic teacher i.e., "better" will find a way to coerce you to make better. Is he better than the one that says- this sux- there's the compost pile... Dunno, but in an open forum the only choice you have is to hide.

10-Jun-2005	#24
bnsaijim bonsaiTALK Master Craftsman Join Date: Sep-2001 Location: Gulf Coast Country: Texas USDA Zone: 8b-9 AHS Heat Zone: ? Posts: 772	Wrong forum Will... you know that. It takes far less effort to heel in and defend opinion because it can't be challenged easily... Funny how the the "Art" forum gets far less traffic. Not as fun as all this I suppose... Crap. I promised my self I'd just lurk. Additionally, Van Gogh studied art seriously as well - mastered the skills of drawing and painting and worked extensively in the styles in vogue (earlier work is in the style of the Dutch Masters- first recognized masterpiece- "The Potato Eaters"). Absinthe and mental health theories aside, his work was derivative and based on solid theory- granted it was not the favored norms of the time. He chose to emphasize, sometimes to an extreme, certain artistic fundamentals over others. Much as Kimura does. The problem we have is the frickin "happy to be me" culture that's been created for us... be dissatisfied about everything but be too distracted or complacent to do anything about it. Wrap it all up in a self esteem bandaid... You can be an artist- it doesn't take skill or craft or even a creative gift. Simply hang out your shingle- and b@#$ if the trained artists don't accept you. While arguing with them make sure you scam as many of their original ideas as you can. I'm being cynical, of course, but as soon as anyone other than Pall debates a point the tone turns "elitist". Any exchange based on the premise that all ideas are equally valid is doomed to this never ending cycle... bonsai ain't science- it's not easily disproven by facts over-riding facts. In real scientific forum, if your data doesn't back up your theory you don't get to say well "my opinion is" at some relatively early point you're belittled and shunned. Career over. No room for "the data takes so long to collect" or "I'm not in it for the grants and actually contributing to mankind's knowledge base- I just love the pursuit of science". Time and time again it's been said here (usually much more diplomatically) - "put up or shut up". Maybe there IS a pony under your pile of sh@#$ but forgive me if I tell you the pile ain't moving, it stinks and everyone's chances of finding one are better off in the open pasture where there's some strange horse-like movements going on. Don't demand an audience from the pasture-pony-hunting crew- keep groping and if you find one, by all means show us how much better it is than ours. Attilla indirectly states a critical point- there is such a thing as bad bonsai. Exclusive of Japanese, Chinese, Taiwanese, Amurrican, European... The diplomatic teacher i.e., "better" will find a way to coerce you to make better. Is he better than the one that says- this sux- there's the compost pile... Dunno, but in an open forum the only choice you have is to hide. __________________ Jim Stone Seki Bonsai Studio sekibonsai.com Santa Fe, TX